Flopped TP & OESD but bad position, should I have lead out here?

woodguy · #1 09-20-2004, 09:44 AM

Hello All,

This is from a Party $100+9 SnG.

All fairly solid players, no one had done anything dumb enough to warrant a note by this point in the tourney.

I complete from the SB and get a pretty nice, but dangerous flop.

Should I have looked to check here (setting up c/r), or is leading out ok?

I lead out trying to take it down right now, or at least narrow the field....kinda worked the other way [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

With MP2's flat call of the all in, and the CO's raise all in, I figured I was behind. (and I was also hearing "DON'T GO BROKE IN AN UNRAISED POT" in my head)

Didn't think anyone had AK due to the PF limping.

How would you play this? (besides mucking PF [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img], getting 8-1 I complete here everytime)

All comments welcome.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG (t465)
UTG+1 (t1360)
MP1 (t1150)
MP2 (t1075)
CO (t1630)
Button (t1470)
Hero (t1105)
BB (t1745)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t50, CO calls t50, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t250) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets t250, BB folds, UTG raises to t415 (All-In), MP2 calls t415, CO raises to t1100, Hero folds, MP2 calls t610 (All-In).

Turn: (t3040) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3040) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3040
Main Pot: t1745 (t1745), between UTG, MP2 and CO. > Pot won by MP2 (t1745).
Pot 2: t1220 (t1220), between MP2 and CO. > Pot won by MP2 (t1220).
Pot 3: t75 (t75), returned to CO.

Results in white below: 
UTG has Kh 5h (one pair, kings).
MP2 has 9c 6c (straight, king high).
CO has Th Jh (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: MP2 wins t2965. CO wins t75. 

regards,
woodguy

Gator · #2 09-20-2004, 10:46 AM

I look at this flop and think you are not going to take it down (unless you want to risk an all in bet here - which you shouldn't). I ck the flop and play on if the players keep the pot reasonable. There's too much to like about this flop (high cards, straights, flushes). This is similar to completing small blind (holding A3) and having an Ace Rag flop - I'll ck it and play on depending upon the action. I don't think you can lead with this hand.

woodguy · #3 09-20-2004, 02:49 PM

I agree.
It was a poor play.
A flop like this is going to hit alot of people 4 way.
Given my position, I should have checked.
Thanks,
woodguy

MrFeelNothin · #4 09-20-2004, 04:15 PM

I would have checked the flop and then either check-raise if a bet comes from late position, or if there is a bet from early position and A LOT of action like probably would have happened here folding is preferred, if you are facing just an early bet check/calling then leading out on the turn could be an option. Basically, this is a dangerous flop and I want to see how the limpers like it.

You have a decent combo hand, but with the texture of the board, a lot of action probably means you're probably holding the 2nd/3rd best made hand and the 2nd/3rd best draw. In this particular situation you were behind the J10 and drawing to only 2 Qs for the whole pot, and 2 Ks and 3 8s for half. Also would have to dodge the flush redraw if you hit on the turn.

Not really a situation where I would be wanting to put a lot of money in.

Oh, and I'd fold preflop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

patrick dicaprio · #5 09-20-2004, 08:50 PM

to me this is an easy fold on the flop. if the CO is a decent player it is hard to see what you beat here and you are drawing to the low end of a high straight that will almost certainly be made if you hit yours. i see you agreed since you folded. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Pat

CASHIZ · #6 09-21-2004, 11:06 PM

I hate to repeat something i'm sure you already know, but anytime you limp with these type of hands, it should-must always be within a good postion. Your good postion is one of the main reasons you have when joining a pot cheaply to begain with. Weather it's to outplay them using your position or getting info in order to throw it away.

And this hand is a prime example of position importance, had u be in a better position you would have seen the raises first and been able to get away at no cost.

But i'm sure you already know this aways. Just be more inclined to limp in late position than early,