Need opinion

I will skip the first part of the hand and move right to the River, Heads up, I am in second to last poss. I am going to try to steal the pot with top pair weak kicker, I reach out with my chips in hand and on the way out to bet and I see the last player has already got a raise out, so instead of betting I check and he goes crazy! saying things like "You have to bet because you were in the motion of betting" I told him that if he would have acted in turn he would have got my Thirty dollars, and then I threw my hand into the muck. I was not trying to take a shot at him, I think that it was his fault for acting out of turn, what does everyone else think?

Depends on the rules in your casino. In some, if you break your stack ("in your motion"), it counts as a bet and must be made. In some, there is a line on the felt, and if your chips pass that line, it's a bet. In some, if you don't release the chips, it's not a bet.


[BTW, if you were heads up, you would either be first to act or last to act, not second to last. And with top pair, your bet wouldn't be construed as a "steal."]

I think Andy covered it pretty well. The rules for this vary. Nonetheless, regardless of the rules of the house, I am sure you can see how your behavior would be frowned upon. You angled your opponent by checking when your intent was in fact to bet. It might be legal, but I think your ethical side can likely see the problem here.


Larry

Dear Bailman,

Andy Fox did a good job of explaining the usual rules.


My experiences have been the same as Andy's, with one exception.


Occasionally at a Casino they will have one rule for their lower limits and another for their higher limits.


For example at one casino that I play at, if a player announces a bet out of turn, at a higher limit, when the action does come to him, he may be committed to make the bet that he announced out of turn.


But at the lower limits the players are allowed to retract their bets.


Because of that, if I accidentally bet out of turn and some one says:


“Hey ! You acted out of turn I have the action !”


I always say:


“I apologies I did not mean to act out of turn. I request permission to retract my bet”


Now there are two benefits of doing that.


First, my appology usualy neutralizes any negative feelings by my opponent.


And second, I have now put the onus of deciding what to do back on the announcer.


They will almost always say “Sure you can retract the bet."


The usual players that I play with pretty much know that I wouldn’t purposely act out of turn.


So about 98% of the time I get to retract my bet, and am no longer responsible to bet when the action gets to me.


If an active player or a dealer says “a bet made is a bet laid,”


I just say "That's fine."


And at least I know where I stand when the action does comes to me.


Most Sincerely,

Doc AZ

another way to avoid conflict might just be to declare that you don't want to violate any rules, and then ask what is required

"I think Andy covered it pretty well."


He does that.


I think that when a guy goes nuts he usually has good reason. As to what the right ruling is, whatever the floorman says.


Tommy

I should have made myself more clear, I am PICKING up my chips and he has ALL READY got the raise on the felt, His hand is retracked before MINE goes OUT.

Once, heads up my opponent said "bet" and I called a little too quickly, my chips hitting the table before his. He then tried to raise me. I've never made that mistake again.


DJ


(His raise was not allowed and I won the pot)

If there are a firm set of rules determining what constitutes a commitment to bet then any action done within these rules (my opinion) aint no angle.


This is why when I am in a hand I never move or talk to people who are to act before me. If I am to act first observing my opponent while i decide what to do is part of the game. --- the game we have both agreed to play, with whatever the rules of the house are. If I am within the rules I may try to get info about my opponents future actions.