SThief09 would raise here...

[Fnord]

Table is a little LooPy in spots. No read on the SB, probably passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="CC3333">Fnord raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Fnord folds...

[sthief09]

I'm inclined to call down here, but I don't have a problem folding.

[joker122]

Really? I like raising best, folding least. Especially since he has the Jd.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Really? I like raising best, folding least. Especially since he has the Jd.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's start over because I thought Hero was closing the action in a headsup pot.

with 2 people behind you in a big pot, it seems like an easy raise. I agree.

headsup I call down

[TBone]

I think the fold is horrible.

SB could be betting a draw instead of a Q. You also have the backdoor 3rd nut flush draw. I think I'd raise looking to possibly get a free turn and river card, (maybe folding K or A of diamonds) and maybe betting the turn.

T
T

[Alobar]

folding is way to weak tight here. raise

[Fnord]

There rest of the hand had me asking a lot of "what if"s

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="red">Fnord raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="red">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Fnord folds, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="red">SB bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls.

River: (9.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB has 5h 6h (two pair, queens and sixes).
MP2 has Kd 4d (one pair, queens).
Button has 7h Kh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: SB wins 9.50 BB. </font>

[daveymck]

This is straight out of Lee Jones and I think demontrates the main differances between WLLH and SSH.

Here you make an apparently reasonable fold saving yourself 2-3 bb's WLLH would endorse this.

SSH would encourage you to raise here trying to clean your outs and get hopefully heads up with the bettor who hopefully is drawing to the flush. Here you lose your 2-3bb's at times but you then have the chance of winning a 10-12 bb pot.

I must be moving in the right direction as I said "What" when I saw you folding the Jacks.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
folding is way to weak tight here. raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? His opponents can't take advantage of this knowledge, even if he folded JJ face up. After all, the bettor still has to beat the other three players as well.

I'd probably raise, but I think it's close.

my 2 cents.
Eric

[Snoogins47]

[ QUOTE ]
Table is a little LooPy in spots. No read on the SB, probably passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="CC3333">Fnord raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Fnord folds...

[/ QUOTE ]


11 to 1 on a call, a pretty damn good chance you're ahead, and if not, you've got 2 outs to trips and a backdoor flush draw...

Call me crazy, but folding here seems absolutely horrible. Now, if you're three-bet, then you can consider check-folding the turn, or calling down.

If you're merely called, the concensus here seems to be to take the free card and cheap showdown...

Am I the only one who thinks the best line here is

Flop: Raise.

If you get 3bet and then he leads the turn, fold if the turn blanked, call if it's a diamond (an absent a read, folding unimproved on the river, or checking behind) and raise if you spike your set, obviously.

If you're called, and checked to, which is likely... bet the turn?

Granted, you're saving a BB on the turn the times you're up against some sort of Queen by taking the free card, but on a draw heavy board like that, but I'd rather give up one BB when I'm behind than give what I feel is probably just as likely a hand (some sort of draw) a free card to beat me on the river.

I might be called LAGGY for this one, but that's my opinion. At least most of us can agree the fold isn't the greatest option?