A Nasty Rash

naphand · #1 09-09-2004, 01:16 PM

My play in aggro games continues to concern me. Hence the rash of posts. Hopefully not contagious.

Another LAG/uber-fish table. My opponent here plays 80% of hands and raises 17%. He has caught some amazing hands to win a lot of $$. I have caught little and am losing $$, probably look as LAG as the rest.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Naphand is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP calls, Naphand raises, SB folds, BB (LAG) calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
LAG checks, MP checks, Naphand bets, LAG raises, MP folds, Naphand 3-bets, LAG calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG bets, Naphand raises, LAG calls.

River: (10.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG checks, Naphand bets, LAG calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB
Main Pot: 12.25 BB, between Naphand and LAG.

Results later.

Anything wrong here? I feel OK about it but doubts remain, esp. the Turn. The Turn could be K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and the flush surely CR, 2-pair re-raises? Given that possibility, is the River value-bet still good?

fyodor · #2 09-09-2004, 01:26 PM

He calls and maybe raises with any diamond or trips.
He also normally calls with worse 2 pair or even 1 pair of Aces.
He folds sometimes though.
Even if you fold to his c/r I think this has to be slightly -ev.

If he never folds and never raises (or you somehow manage to only call the c/r when he is bluffing) it is slightly +ev.

I think checking behind is more correct.

stripsqueez · #3 09-09-2004, 01:36 PM

this is a spot where i am going to call a river check raise unless i have the rareish read that tells me its hopeless

i still think its close - perhaps if you think he is prone to raise a small diamond check is best

i think you played it ok

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

tripdad · #4 09-09-2004, 02:48 PM

i take a totally different approach to LAG defense.

for one thing, you can never put the LAG on a hand. you also never know when they are going to check/raise, then fold to your 3-bet. they are simply unpredictable. unless i am very confident i have much the best of it, i play passively against them. i want to see a showdown against these players.

you do not know where you stand in this hand, no matter what you do. therefore, my line would be as follows:

flop: bet, call the check/raise

turn: call the bet

river: call the bet(he will bet because you have played passively)

had one of your cards been a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], your line would be better.

cheers!

Grisgra · #5 09-09-2004, 03:13 PM

If they're all LAG-gy, I just call instead of raising preflop. Seems unlikely on Paradise that you're going to be chasing both of them out, and your hand plays better 4-way than 3-way. Also makes it easier to get away.

PokerNoob · #6 09-09-2004, 04:35 PM

He's A3 or A8 and starts fearing AK or a flush when you raise the turn? Or he's ace and little diamond who decides discretion is the better part of valor on the river. I'm not sure I like the turn raise. He's not going anywhere and doesn't seem to really fear you having a nice ace. You can still bet if checked to on the river. I hate being shown a small diamond on the end, but he's really not ever going to fold to a turn raise.

naphand · #7 09-10-2004, 03:58 AM

River: (10.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG checks, Naphand bets, LAG calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB
Main Pot: 12.25 BB, between Naphand and LAG.

Result:
LAG has 3h 3s (three of a kind, threes).
Naphand has Qh As (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: LAG wins 12.25 BB.

Typical of most a lower limits, he was s**t scared of the flush, but cannot fold.

TJD · #8 09-10-2004, 04:51 AM

If he is going to fold a set every time someone shows aggression, he will end up a big loser [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

He probably does not know where he stands with you and as another poster described, decided to just take a passve line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Looks like he made a good call for the size of the pot

trevor

Notbadatall · #9 09-10-2004, 07:32 AM

He played it well, of course he had to call it on the river. Your bet is better in a 3 way pot there he might fold his set in a middle position but heads up you might just check that river after his check, no chance he will fold a better hand than you and less chance he would call with a worse. He might call with only an A but I guess it is more than 50 % that he has you beat.

girgy44 · #10 09-10-2004, 02:58 PM

This is party 1/2! That was a great spot for a value bet for sure. I think about value betting that even just with top pair. I was continually amazed at how many bets i was probably missing when I first switched to 1/2 6 max. Now if I have anything that even resembles a value bet I fire away, and I would guess that it is paying off 75-80% of the time.

As I sit here writing this I just had the following hand. I had QQ in the sb, it was 3-bet to me i capped. 3- handed to the flop.

Flop A42r I bet, call, call
Turn A(still r) Bet, call, call
River 2 Bett, call, call

Pot was shipped and HH showed 88 and JJ decided to pay me off.