To Chop or Not

I usually play 3-6 or 5-10 Hold'em. At those levels I always chop the blinds because of the rake.

When I played at the 10-20 game in A.C.,there was no rake.They took $5 every half hour. Therefore, I didn't chop. Most of the other players chopped. Is my thinking wrong?

Since I play few hands anyway, I feel I'll be missing some profit in a timed game.

If the small blind was $0 he should never chop since he can do better by playing premium hands. If the small blind was equal to the big blind then the big blind should never chops since he has position. I suppose I guess that the "fair" chops sb/bb ratio is 2/3.


But the major factor is whether or not you can outplay the opponent heads-up. This can easily overcome any sb/bb ratio or rake. Of secondary importance is keeping the peace.


If you are confident in you short-handed abilities AND confident in both your neighbor's lack, then don't chop with either. Otherwise keep the peace and chop with both.


- Louie

I always chop in raked games, because it is profitable to do so. It is a rare day when your neighbor is so weak that you can play them heads-up with +EV when the house is taking $3-4 out of the pot.


Yet, like you suggest, if it's a time game, it costs me nothing (to the house) to play the hand, and I think I'm better than most of my opponents, so I never chop in time games.


Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

I went four years as a non-chopper and started chopping a few months ago and I much much prefer it.


I don't think one way is better than the other. Louie stated the key parameters. Another to consider is your tipping policy. If you tip $1 on any pot with some action in it, then you're paying roughly fifty cents per played hand (blind vs blind). Might not sound like much, but it's likely enough to cancel whatever long-range profit you might be making by playing the blinds out.


Tommy

I agree with your chopping policy, comprehensively.


You should consider telling both of your neighbors, politely, "by the way, I don't chop" as soon as you see a pot get chopped in your time-collection game. That minimizes the chances that you'll piss 'em off just enough to get 'em playing better against you.


--JMike

"This can easily overcome any sb/bb ratio or rake."


I don't know about this. Rakes have gone up over the years and I question whether it is possible to outplay people for three or four dollars per hand. Remember you almost always make the decision to chop before you see your cards. So the question is can you outplay someone for this amount when you each hold random cards?

could be just me, but I do not think the $$ (here) is as important as the feelings of the other players--I choose to go with the flow, not make waves, etc--so if most everyone chops, I chop.

im unclear on the statement regarding almsot always deciding to chop before seeing your cards. isnt the option to chop only available after everyone has been dealt a hand, and nobody voluntarily enters the pot? you have cards at this time, why is it that you would make the choice without looking at your cards? is this some standardized rule that ive never seen before? when i played low limit in california, i never saw a hand where blinds were chopped. never ever ever. not even the option, since somebody always entered the pot voluntarily. always, without exception. i play in illinois now, and the LL games i play in the blinds can chop, but they always look at their cards before deciding.

The issue is whether you make a gentleperson's agreement (golly, I hate this Political Correct cra_ ..err.. stuff) to ALWAYS chop when everybody else folds before the flop. You thus "chop blind". Deciding to chop after you both have looked seems silly to me: "I want to chop if you sort-of want to chop but I don't want to chop if you really want to chop".


- Louie

You can certainly make it up against weak-tight players since they fold right away far too often, and contested pots will only hit the max rake when YOU have a good hand as well.


You can also make it up against weak-loose players who will let you draw cheap but give you plenty of action when you have a hand.


I think.


- Louie