Mid Pair, Mid Stack, Mid Position

[parappa]

Party 10+1. 8-handed. Blinds 50/100. Table quite tight.

UTG (500)
UTG+1 (800)
MP (1000)
Hero (900)
LP (1350)
CO (650)
Button (1070)
SB (800)
BB (1500)

Folded around to Hero, who has TT.

[etizzle]

push

[ilya]

i agree, push.

[chill888]

Push here and you will spend a lot of time on the sidelines cursing 1010 (binary - do i get credit for naming this hand?). See the flop as cheap as possible - if it's a passive game - just call. Minimum raise works too. As does fold. Yes i said fold. Depends on game and players. limping is a bad/terrible strategy usually in NL but this is one hand that cries out for a limp. Small raises work too but you must be able to get away from this hand if a scary flop arises. Or if someone solid reraises you preflop.

I know a lot of you will disagree, but if you push and are called you hate it and there's no need at this point. This advice will also be impcomprehensible for those of you who inexplicably love hands like 33 44 55 66 etc.

10 10 is a SMALL PAIR in NL hold'em.

If the flop is OK then get aggressive. Defining what is an OK flop is more complex. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And yes, as the game progresses and less people are left or your stack shrinks you must play 10 10 much more aggressively. But a main goal of early play is avoiding heads up situations - with all your chips in the middle - when you aren't a big favorite,


Just the humble opinion of someone who used to push 10 10 many years ago.

Regards,

[rybones]

I disagree. First, you say this is a tight table, if that is the case, why risk your entire stack when 1/3 of your stack will likely do the trick. If someone calls, it is likely with over cards so you will know if you are beat on the flop and you can shut down. The plus side is that (imo) lots of party players will call your bet with lower pairs they will not be able to let go of when they do not see an A or K on board (even then I have seen them call raises). Additionally, when you don't see over cards, those that called you with over cards will also stay in because they figure their over card is bound to hit. Take as much money from these folks as possible. you may take the bad beat every now and then, but I also think the long term value is in playing as many cards after the flop as possible. Again, this is just me. If someone flops a set or has a higher pair, they will re-raise your raise and you can get out. You have now be 600 and are left 300, but you are still in the game. With the push, the call means you are either in a coin flip or are dead.

as usual, I would love feedback on my analysis from any and all.

Ryan

[reecelights]

I agree 3xBB (1/3 your stack). You probably pick it up. If not, you allow yourself to get away.

[parappa]

I pushed this, but believe that it was a mistake. I was called by AQo in the small blind who hit an ace.

The reason I think it was a mistake was that I basically believe what Chill888 says, and that there's this "in between" area for these medium pairs where a 3xbb raise is too much of your stack (hurts too much to check/fold a flop with an overcard) and it's too early/hand isn't good enough to push.

I think that this is a tough issue, but I'm going to fold these for a while in this situation (desparation low, lots of players in, blinds 10%+ of stacks, medium pair not on the button) and see how I get on.

[Lori]

Just an observation parappa.

[ QUOTE ]
Don’t get cocky, it’s gonna get rock

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember what master onion sage taught you.
A lot of your hands are very marginal, and you are trying to make extra chips from very close situations.
Whilst this is the right thing to do long term, I think you are maybe pushing it a little too much on average.

If in doubt (Not so appropriate to this hand) fold.

Edit: That being said, your hands are often quite interesting to read and so keep posting them because although marginal, they are certainly not all folds.
I just get the feeling that on average you are playing very slightly too loose.

Lori

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Just an observation parappa.

[ QUOTE ]
Don’t get cocky, it’s gonna get rock

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember what master onion sage taught you.
A lot of your hands are very marginal, and you are trying to make extra chips from very close situations.
Whilst this is the right thing to do long term, I think you are maybe pushing it a little too much on average.

If in doubt (Not so appropriate to this hand) fold.

Edit: That being said, your hands are often quite interesting to read and so keep posting them because although marginal, they are certainly not all folds.
I just get the feeling that on average you are playing very slightly too loose.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Lori,

In most of these "do I push?" scenarios, you can make a pretty reasonable chip EV estimate by assuming a range of hands that will call, figuring the likelihood of finding one of those on the BB, etc. You know the drill.

If we were to do that here, would you have any advice on how many chips +EV would mark the threshhold from fold to push (assuming no other options make sense?)?

It's the old "what constitutes a marginal situation" question for the risk of getting your chips all-in.

I have a rough number that I keep in mind here (in terms of % stack increase), and I wondered if you do as well.

eastbay

[Lori]

Oddly this is one hand where I may make a smaller raise, however that's not what you asked sooooo...

I don't have an actual figure in mind, but it's a good question, as there must be one.

Instead of EV, i find myself thinking about risk vs blind probabilities and with a hand like TT assume im pretty much 50-50 if called.

I think to push here, I'd like to be picking up 300 chips to add to my 900 if Im in the region of 20% to go out on the hand (50% to lose if called 40% to be called)

These figures are 'top of the head' and may have flaws, but I like to answer such questions on instinct before properly analysing.

Lori