What goes through your mind here.

[davidross]

4th hand of tonights $200 Party NL.

I'm in the BB with 87o. 4 limpers and I check.

FLop is Js Ts 9d. I bet 60 into the pot of 75 and its folded to the CO who raises me to 250.

WHat's your thought process here.

[Paul2432]

I think you have to fold here or move all-in. There are far too many scare cards that can come end leave you guessing. Even if you are ahead if he has something like QJ he's not in bad shape. Fold may be your best bet.

Paul

[Dylan Wade]

[ QUOTE ]
WHat's your thought process here.

[/ QUOTE ]


#$#$#!!!

[VeraN]

All in I think he might have a Queen with a spade.

[davidross]

I'm not so much disappointed with my play here as I am with my thought process. I had decided not to play at all tonight, took my little girl to a movie, came home and at 9:45 checked to see if there was a 10:00 PM tournament and entered. THis is a prime example of bringing my "B" game.

I flopped the straight and made the fishing bet pretty sure someone got a piece of this flop, and expecting some calls. In hindsight this might be the time to check raise and try to force out draws, but on this kind of board QXs is a favorite so that is probably no more effective. Once he raised me I shoved all in right away. I figured if he had KQ I was going to lose all my chips eventually anyway, and if he was drawing I wouldn't get all his chips if I only called, so I was better to push in. I never considered folding, and I think I should have. First of all, I might be behind, and if I'm ahead, he is unlikely to be drawing dead.

In the hand he had KQ and of course called me, I finished 1116 of 1128, I did beat 12 guys. I have gotten good enough at playing these tournaments that I can do well when I don't run into big hands, but the next step, being able to get away from very good hands, still eludes me. I believe the very best players can do this. I had 60 chips invested, and 925 left if I fold. KQ and Q8 crush me. Any 2 spades or any K or Q could beat me too if the wrong card comes up. His raise is unlikely to be a bluff, and if that's his style, I have lots of time to get my chips back. Bottom line, I thinki a really good player can fold this hand, and I couldn't.

[Punker]

As much as some people hate him, Hellmuth has some good things to say about such situations. At level 1 of your average Party tournament there will be a lot of spots to get your money in with VERY much the best of it. If you are up against as little as a dry queen here, you are still taking about a 1 in 4 shot at death, and you are probably up against more than that. If you are up against a Q high flush draw, you're the underdog and you are getting called for sure.

I have picked up a great deal from reading Hellmuth's columns about passing up +EV spots in tournaments to look for larger +EV spots later. If you think you're strong enough to accumulate chips, there's no need to risk your tourney on a double up when you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying at level 1 - the reward just isn't worth the risk.

[pokerraja]

Nice post here david. This is/was a very difficult hand. I know your background is mostly Limit. In limit you can play this hand and not lose your whole stack. But in NL, these type of hands are very difficult to get away from without going broke . Even moreso in a tournament. The problem with your lead bet and his subsequent re-raise is that you still really dont know where you are in this hand. Is his reraise due to draws, ie. straight and flush draw, or does he have two pair, etc... Now the question is this the time to test this hand?, or do you actually re-raise him back for value, or do you just put him all=in and hope you are not drawing dead? Clearly I think the correct answer is none of the above. Its way to early in a tournament to test the waters with the "sissy straight" on a very scarey board. So a fold is the correct play for sure. But I'm not sure I Could fold it either [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Paul2432]

No one is good enough to give up a 75% chance to double up. That, in fact, would be a horrible play.

Paul

[davidross]

how do you figure 75%?

[USCUNC]

Tuff decision.

You raised for value and with the cards on the board you were re-raised. Since your 87 was os and not spades, you open your self up to a short evening.

After your raise and his re-raise. You can either call and try to check to the river or fold.

In no event do you press the all in button. As KQ or Q8 have you snookered. Since there was no pre-flop action its tuff to figure out which.

Regards.