When do you fold KK pre-flop?

[LinusKS]

The other day I lost a big pot in a nl cash game with KK v AA.

Now my general rule of thumb is if I can get all-in preflop with KK I'm going to do it, and if the other guy has the AA, well, bad luck on me.

But I was wondering, do other people have a different thought on this?

I'm not asking about the weird situations, like certain tournament bubble plays. And I'm not asking about when you have a perfect read on someone, since I rarely have a perfect read on the internet.

Are you giving up $ by always (or nearly always) calling all-in with KK?

Thanks.

[whiskeytown]

I can't say for sure if I would ever fold KK preflop in a standard NL ring game (and I'm the biggest weak/tight player on 2+2) - unless I had the button and it got raised 5 ways south of sunday b4 it got to me...and even then, I'd consider a flop.

it is the 2nd biggest hand in poker, period....there is only one hand out of the 169 that dominates you, and any callers are virtually going to be -EV time after time.

post flop when the A hits....well, gl - but not preflop, no - not if I can go into my pocket and buy in again.

Don't forget - your win rate isn't 1.5 BB/hr spread over 60 hands....it's generally 5 or 6 big ones and 55-60 ones you muck/fold - by mucking KK preflop, you're taking the big ones out of the equation - and you will probably still get action from QQ/JJ and AK/AQ - so by all means.... repop that [censored] all in.

RB

[dogmeat]

You have to know your players.

I have folded KK preflop exactly one time in my life, and I shouldn't have.

If you are playing somebody that you know to be very tight, and they come over the top with a large reraise, there is a chance they have AA. If you watch a number of limpers and your very-tight player goes all-in, there is also a chance they have AA. However, I think I would probably still call the single raise. Good Luck.

You will get more responses if you use the NL forum.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[SevenStuda]

When your playing Limit-Poker, usually never, unless an opponent opens his cards and shows AA.

-Dimitri

[DcifrThs]

100% you are losing your ass!!!!

if you're UTG and raise to $15 (2/4 blinds- assume all have $500) and get 3 callers then the button makes it $40 you make it $75 all call and then the button moves in he has AA almost 100% of the time. fold.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

you're missing the point here ... if you know the guy has AA you can get away without committing your stack. you only call if you have the odds to flop a set....KK equals 22 if you know the guy has AA and i know you're capable of folding 22 to a massive bet.

that is also why if you have 500 behind as does the whole table and UTG makes it 15 and he's a tight good player and he gets 3 callers you DO NOT MOVE IN with KK...only aa will call.

-Barron

[whiskeytown]

unless he has a monster tell the size of Rhode Island, I will NEVER know he has AA unless I'm cheating - (the poster kinda made that point....you never REALLY know)

RB

[whiskeytown]

it's a question relating to NL, not limit

RB

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Limit & NL cash games - never
NL tourney - maybe on the bubble in a super when I'm confident I can fold to the money or in a regular tourney where folding will guarantee me a higher payoff slot at the final table. Otherwise - never.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
it's a question relating to NL, not limit

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

my post read

[ QUOTE ]
100% you are losing your ass!!!!

if you're UTG and raise to $15 (2/4 blinds- assume all have $500) and get 3 callers then the button makes it $40 you make it $75 all call and then the button moves in he has AA almost 100% of the time. fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was clearly talking about nl...

so i don't understand your post...

-Barron