Is there a better way to play this?

[durron597]

This was the first hand this player played this SnG (and the first hand I played as well). $10+1 on PokerRoom.

Seat 1: SB ($1,400 in chips)
Seat 2: BB ($1,280 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG (Villian) ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG+1 ($1,685 in chips)
Seat 5: MP1 ($1,220 in chips)
Seat 6: durron597 [ K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ] ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 7: MP3 ($1,605 in chips)
Seat 8: CO-1 ($1,470 in chips)
Seat 9: CO ($2,160 in chips)
Seat 10: Button ($1,180 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($10), BB posts blind ($20).

PRE-FLOP
Villian bets $40, 2 folds, durron597 bets $125, 6 folds, Villian bets $300, durron597 calls $215.

FLOP [board cards Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
Villian bets $360, durron597 folds.

[NegativeEV]

Villian min-raised then reraised heavily. I've read many posts here that say this is an indicator of AA or KK, but this is contrary to my experience at the low buy-in tables at PP (I don't have experience at PokerRoom). I see this type of action frequently with the villian showing AJ or worse at the $11 tables. The fact that villian has not yet played a hand worries me a bit, but I'm still inclined to either call his preflop RR or push in over top. I'd call in this situation as you did.

With the two suited flop, you now have only 4 outs to the A or K that you really like, and these may even be poor outs as they make a likely 2 pair for villian. I would fold the flop as you did.

I'm interested in other thoughts on this hand as I would make the same play you did, but it feels a little weak.

[durron597]

Yeah, basically my thought process through this hand was that "OK I have AK, must raise. Oh man, I got reraised; well he could have AA or KK but he could have AQ/AJ/QQ/JJ/TT/99?" too. Ok I'll see a flop.

On the flop: Man, this flop sucks. Hm, he's betting. I am only ahead of AJ taking a stab, unless he has Ah Jh, AQ/and any PP are beating me now, and most of those will call a push. I have to fold.

After the hand: Man, that was weak. There has to be a better way to play this.

[irieraise]

Since this is a $10 tournament, I guess all kinds of shenanigans are possible (such as the Villan making the move with a weaker A). But, if he's a reasonable player whatsoever, you have a clear fold pre-flop when he reraises you to $300.

I really feel you need to raise pre-flop with AK (which you did...and a pretty good amount too, btw, even though it was less than a pot-sized raise) to find out where you are. When someone comes over the top of you, I think you're almost always behind (i.e., he's got a pocket pair). In general, I think the natural inclination of a weaker Ace is to call your raise pre-flop, not to pop you. Same for a middle or low pair. 99 - AA will reraise. Yes, the pot odds are in your favor to make a call here (if his pair isn't AA or KK), but it sucks in poker to be getting the right price, and yet be a favorite to lose the hand or have to give up on the flop.

Since you posted looking for a better way to play this hand, I submit folding to the reraise pre-flop and looking for a better spot. And, if you are one of the best players at the table, I'm convinced this is the correct play 100% of the time. If you think your game is a little weak, reraising all-in here and racing (assuming he calls) is probably the second best option.

Good luck,

--Mark

[Irieguy]

While I agree with the other irie dude, I still think there's a better way to play this. I just had a very similar hand in a $100+9 on PP. It was the first hand of the second level, and I hadn't seen a flop yet.

An early position player who also hadn't seen a flop yet made a minimum raise preflop and I was in LP with AK. While I would almost always raise here, and raising is probably correct almost everytime, I thought for a few moments and came up with a better plan:

I didn't like the min. raise as the first noise in a tourney from an early position player. While he could be just screwing around, of course, he could also have a really big hand that wants action and he's afraid his quietness thus far might cause folds all around. So, If I raised and got re-popped preflop, I'd fold... which I don't want. Instead, I just called the min. raise... knowing that the blinds could give me trouble, but I like my hand and my position... so it's ok. The SB folded and the BB called. Flop came Jack high and the original raiser bet 1/4 of his stack (250) into a $70 pot. I folded and the BB went all-in. Results are irrelevant.

So here's my point and the rationale behind it: If you are particularly worried that you are getting trapped preflop with AK, then consider flat calling a small bet. This lets you get away cheap, and if the flop comes with an ace or king you can probably play the hand in such a way as to trap the trapper if he has an underpair or weaker ace. Since you haven't shown any strength pre-flop, you are in good position to trap post-flop if you get lucky.

I don't think this is fancy play syndrome... if you think a tight player is getting tricky, you might have to get trickier. Also, if you can get away from AK preflop when you are against a big pair, you will be saving money that almost nobody else is able to save.

Before anybody starts spouting about how weak/tight this play is, remember that this discussion only applies to a situation where you have very good reason to be afraid of a better hand than yours. This discussion in not relevant to the other 95% of the time you have AK in late position and are facing a raise in front of you.

[gergery]

Why not raise to T75-100? That’s enough to force anyone else with crappy and or drawing hands out (since there’s a UTG raiser and then reraiser), and get UTG to define his hand. If he’s got Ax, suited connectors or smaller pair 88-22 you want him to call anyway, as he’ll be throwing away his hand to your flop bet most of the time anyway.

Once he reraises you, that seems like AA-QQ as I think all other hands would call, so you fold. And if hes got something goofy like AJ or 99 it shouldn’t be too hard to take his money later.

--Greg

[durron597]

No way. I have to limit the range of hands he could be on - maybe he's not THAT tight and just got crap cards for the first few hands (remember it's only level 1). Also remember there are a lot of players behind me who I don't want to see a cheap flop - with a flop this multiway I would have to fold even if the flop were K66 instead of the Q66 it actually was.

Really, I think my raise is fine, and I think my flop fold is fine; what's really in dispute here (IMO) is my reraise call. I could see both rereraising and folding here as viable options. But I have to make that first raise preflop.

[gergery]

That’s fine but with two limpers you will find people calling with connected cards, 1-gappers, any pair, and some other stuff, so if you do hit TPTK and run into any action you will have to bail. So you are giving up any folding equity you might have, which is in general not how you want to play poker if you have a hand that doesn’t have to give it up.

[patrick dicaprio]

min raise and then reraise? i have to think you are behind here. maybe you are better off that you didnt catch an A or K! if he made this paly with QQ or worse then even then you cant be too upset becaue you are still behind unless he does this with AQ or AJ which is very rare at any level.

Pat

[stupidsucker]

I didnt read all the replys, but here is what I do (sometimes)

When I have AK, and someone raises before me I always re-raise like you did. If I get raised back again I sometimes fold right there depending on my stack size, pot size, and the level of the tourney. AK is a very powerful hand, but it has its weaknesses. I have found that if I cant gain the lead going to the flop then I am probably beat. Even if I get an A or K on the flop (or both) I still dont know if someone has made a set. This can be very very costly, and if my opponent has QQ or JJ then you rarely get paid off when you flop your A or K.

Bottom line, if I feel I am beat preflop when I hold AK I muck it. This mainly goes for early rounds action. Once the blinds are high I dont waste any time, I push and see what it brings.