good fold here?

greg nice · #1 08-16-2004, 02:09 PM

Empire Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed)

UTG+1 (t940)
MP1 (t715)
MP2 (t1595)
Hero (t940)
Button (t695)
SB (t710)
BB (t1220)
UTG (t1185)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, MP1 calls t30, MP2 folds, Hero calls t30, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t180) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets t30, MP1 folds, Hero raises to t60, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t30.

Turn: (t300) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t300, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t600

irieraise · #2 08-16-2004, 03:38 PM

1. QJo here is virtually unplayable pre-flop. If you fold it, you won't have to make difficult decisons with it post-flop.

2. If you are going to play it pre-flop because you can get in cheap (limp) and see a flop, I think you need to flop trips, 2 pair, or an open-end straight draw to even think about putting more money in the pot, and even then, I'd still fold to excessive heat with some of those flops.

3. When all you flop is top-pair, I think you just want to show it down as cheaply as possible. I might call on the flop, but I certainly wouldn't raise.

4. When you do raise, you want to ask yourself why you are raising, and then raise the appropriate amount to achieve that goal. On the flop, you want to find out where you are. Is top pair any good right now? When you make the minimum raise at your UTG opponent, I'd estimate he's calls you with whatever he has 99% of the time, if not more. In other words, you didn't gain any information from your minimum raise...he's calling you with everything. Your hand isn't good enough to be value-betting, so I really think this raise is a big mistake.

A much better raise here is approximately the pot = $270. If he comes back over the top of you, then he's worried about the club draw and trying to protect his hand, so you're almost certainly beaten. If he calls, then he's probably drawing, and you might be able to take the pot away from him if a blank hits on the turn (no club, no K, no 8) and he checks to you. Or, I don't see much wrong with just checking it back to him and hoping the river doesn't make his hand and he checks that to you too. If my flop raise gets called here, I'd love to just show down my top pair at no further expense and see if it's any good.

Bottom line is that your fold is good and almost undoubtedly correct here. But I really think the true error in the hand is getting involved with QJo in the first place.

Good luck.

--Mark

greg nice · #3 08-16-2004, 06:39 PM

excellent. i knew the problem was playing this hand to begin with. youre right on the min-raise. it served really no purpose here and i dont know why i did it. i do know that i didnt want to bet 270 as you suggested with only top pair. for some reason i have a fear of betting the flop big and hoping to win. i think cause a lot of the home games i play everyone calls and i usually get sucked out.

anyway i had him beat on the flop but the turn brought him two pair.. so he says.