Big Hand - Crazy Game

[Zoe's Echo]

I was playing at the $10/$20 NLHE game at the Bellagio last Thursday and had an interesting hand come up.

My play in the hand was significantly influenced by prior plays at the table.

Stacks when I sat ranged from $1.4K to $18K. During the course of the session I had seen one player (Target) make some outlandish calls.

The first hand I sat down to was a raised pot with a flop of JT2 (rainbow) there was a bet and a call on the flop and the pot had roughly $3K in it. The turn was a 4 and the SB checked and the Target bet $1.5K the SB checkraised all in and the target called with his last $2.8K. River was a T and the Target scooped a nice pot with trips - SB had AJ. So my read was lots of action in a big limit game - very nice combination.

In a later hand the cutoff raised to $180 (with about $3K behind) the Target flat called ($11,000 behind) and the SB made it $600 to go (couldn't tell how deep because he played with cash and had taken the tilted AJ's seat). Both players called.

Flop was 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] the SB bet $600 and both players called again. Flop 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] the SB checked, Cutoff pushed for his last $1.8K and the Target thought for 5 minutes and called. SB folded.

Winning hand - Cutoff A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - Target 55.

I was drooling to get a hand against him. Hour later when the hand came up my stack size was $2,200 and the Target as at $17,000. I limped in a 7 way pot in Cutoff with 66. Flop 669 - [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]!

Checked to me and I check behind. Turn Q. Target in BB led out for $300 and folded to me. My decision was to min raise to represent a Q as well since I had seen him bet big with several KQ's and thought he had it again. He had played top pair with KQ like a hammer all night and had won each time. I fully expected him to raise and with 100% certainty thought that he would call getting 2:1. Folded to him and he thinks for 1 min and folds. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

To my knowledge I gave no tell and just stared at the board unflinching. I had also only been sitting for a short time in the game (2 hours) but had only played only about 6 pots.

He later admitted that he had a Queen and mucked it.

How bad was my play seeing that this guy had given $5-$7K in action when behind in the past 2 hours and even more with top pair K or Q?

Against any other player I would have smooth called and hoped for another bet. In retrospect I think that I might have gotten some more action on the turn if I made a small bet on the flop but I was hoping someone had/would have connected with something on the flop or turn. With the limped pot I was really hoping for 99 somewhere.

I also pondered calling his bet but based on his prior play and his monster stack (near $17K at this point) I hadn't expected him to fold top pair when the pot was offering him 2:1.

Thoughts appreciated.

Good Luck

[turnipmonster]

I don't like a minimum raise here. either raise the pot and make it look like a steal or smooth call. that raise just looks too much like you're stringing him along, and no one likes to be strung along. I would bet the flop sometimes against loose players also, checking is fine too. you won a small pot with quads which is really to be expected most of the time.

--turnipmonster

[Ulysses]

I would think a little and then call the turn. You have to take into account that this guy could easily have absolutely nothing in this spot. If so, let him make something or bluff again on the river. If he does have something, he'll bet again and with your stack you can raise all-in on the river without overbetting.

[smallsaladbar]

I'm no authority on NL, especially at these limits, but I would def smooth call here and hope someone catches a hand with the river and you can make a abnoxiously large raise that seems like a steal attempt.

[D.J.]

I think you played this hand pretty badly, not that I'm the quads expert or anything but this isn't a horrible board to have quads on especially with 7-way action. It's pretty important to know if there were any flush draws or not on the flop I don't think you said either way. Anyway, there is $140 in the pot when it got checked to you, and I would have bet probably about $75 with that many players in the hand because you'll probably get callers with any kind of hand or draw or overcards. Next b/c you didn't bet the flop the Q hits the turn the guy with all the money bets and you make a mini-raise, you might as well have held up a sign saying you have a 6 let alone 66. Also, there's no telling how the action could have gone had you bet the flop b/c people might have put you on the 9, then when the Q hits they might try and check-raise you, steal, etc., but no one wants to put any money into an empty pot and with you being in the cutoff, I don't see how you checked on the flop. You can't really afford to miss opportunities like that one especially with that many players in the pot.

-D.J.

[Cheap Shot]

Min reraise? Jeez...
Hes lagish, hes not an idiot though, right?
If I want someones cash I play against them like I respect them. I don't try to toy with them. Because even if I get paid off once they won't pay me off anymore...
I like diablos advice, think it over like you've got a 9 and call. This guy will bet the river everytime probably. Then you just think for a few like you don't want to laydown. And push, probably will work on this guy often enough..

[jkinetic]

[ QUOTE ]
To my knowledge I gave no tell and just stared at the board unflinching. I had also only been sitting for a short time in the game (2 hours) but had only played only about 6 pots.

He later admitted that he had a Queen and mucked it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think an underrated thing in poker is the illusion of giving action to get action. So many posts on this site talk about strategy, pot odds, mathematical permutations/computations, etc. Poker is a hustle, straight up, there are many intangible things that are equally important if not more important than the "theory" of poker.

If you are a gambler and you have a few dimes behind you and you open for 100 in a 10/20 NL game, I will gamble with you with the 97 off. Now say I get lucky with this trash and I bust said gambler and showdown my hand. I will get action the rest of the night from the entire table even when I hold premium hands.

Now if you have played 6 pots in 2 hours as you did and you open UTG for 100 and I have the AJ suited, that is going into the muck so fast you would never have been able to tell I was even dealt cards.

If you ever play the 10/20 NL at Commerce, watch what happens when Jim Delany open raises a pot, see how fast people that know him muck their hands.

[SpaceAce]

I think smooth-calling the turn has two obvious benefits:
1) You encourage him to bet again at the river.
and
2) If he checks to you at the river and you bet, it might look like a steal to him, especially if there is a draw that missed.

SpaceAce

[Zoe's Echo]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

When he was contemplating a call on the turn I already knew that my play was poor in this hand. The positive thing is that all of the thoughts mentioned in the posts here went through my head during the hand. The next course of action is to take them with me next time.

I think the best return on this pot in this situation would have been to make an $80 bet on the flop (as DJ and turnip suggested). This screams late postion 9 and with two overs and getting just under 3:1 I will get a call from at least Target. When the Q hits Target would fire which would be good in two aspects. 1) The pot would have been $300 vs. $140) so his overbet would have been more like $500-$600. 2) Then I can ponder (per Diablo) and smooth call. My thinking is that only two cards could come on the river that would keep him from betting - a 9 or A. Also, a Q could fall which would have been heaven.

Thanks for all of your thoughts.

Good Luck