using ESPN to practice counting outs

[kleinstadt1]

Hi all-

Have been reading here quite a bit the past few months, and really enjoy it. Now onto my question:

SSH really drives in the idea that counting outs is vitally important to being a winning poker player. I'm okay at this, but know I could improve.

A friend decided to practice when he was playing online. This is a good idea, but there is no "answer key". If I am continually miscounting outs, then I am just reinforcing mistakes. I love the hand quizzes in SSH and Ciaffone's Mid-Limit book.

Thing is, I need more.

My idea: use my newly-purchased TiVo and WSOP on ESPN. After the flop, extrapolate the percentages (33% becomes 2:1) then extrapolate outs (about 13 for 2:1?). Then make sure I can account for all the outs, and that I don't count incorrect ones.

Finally, my question: has anyone ever noticed errors in these percentages? I'm leery of using ESPN as my poker answer key.

Thanks for you help.

[LowDown22]

I suppose you could try doing this. I just see this generating a lot of confusion for you. Figuring your outs is more or less putting your opponent on a hand and then deciding what you need to hit in order to beat it. Watching ESPN, you skip the part of putting someone on a hand (an extremely important skill) and are just figuring probabilities. Practice with the play money games. You don't need to be perfect, your skills will grow with time.

[kleinstadt1]

I didn't want to make it sound like I'm a total newbie. My win rate at .5/1 PP is 3.5 BB/100 after 12,000 hands, according to PT.

I want to make sure I'm not counting outs that would make people's straights and flushes (like if I'm drawing to two pair or trips). I think I do that a lot.

[ChicagoTroy]

This was like a $10-20 hand I had Saturday. I limp-reraised with AKh. Flop came KJT with two diamonds, and I started getting a lot of action from three players. It became pretty clear that if I was behind, a Q was an out (except for Qd) but another K or A might not be, unless more than one came. Rags came and I smoked those foos anyway, but it would have been nice to know where I stood mathmatically.

[NuShoes]

Newbie question here but what is SSH?

[PITTM]

he is referring to small stakes hold em, the new ed miller book.

rj

[NuShoes]

[ QUOTE ]
he is referring to small stakes hold em, the new ed miller book.

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks.

[VeraN]

Wouldn't it be easier just to count outs by % instead of 4 to 1 ratio etc? All you gotta do is multiply by 4 on the turn and river, 2 on the river.

http://www.pokernoob.com

[The4thFilm]

Keep in mind ESPN uses all of the players' hole cards in figuring the percentages.

[kleinstadt1]

I use the ratios because I then try to justify a call or fold based on pot odds (paying 12:1, getting 5.5:1, etc.) That's the way I think at the table, so it would flow more naturally for me, although your way is probably easier.

I'm open to suggestions, however...