How do I overcome the bad and lucky players?

[PizzaAggie]

It seems that whenever I get knocked out of a tourney or lose significantly at the ring games on line it is due to people that call raises that they should not and end up hitting their two pair, Js and 7s for example. Should I go up in limit to avoid some of those players or should I play extra tight? I need some help to get over the hump.

[TheGrifter]

Play better postflop, know when you're beat.

If you can't beat players who are constantly making mistakes it's because you yourself are a bad player, get better.

Moving up in limits will only allow you to lose your money more quickly.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that whenever I get knocked out of a tourney or lose significantly at the ring games on line it is due to people that call raises that they should not and end up hitting their two pair, Js and 7s for example. Should I go up in limit to avoid some of those players or should I play extra tight? I need some help to get over the hump.

[/ QUOTE ]

You definitely should not move up in limits. Beating loose passive players is the easiest it gets, and that is what you just described ("...people that call raises that they should not..."). If this is a long term thing, re-evaluate your play. The two biggest leaks in poker are playing too many starting hands and going too far with them. I would take a brutally honest look at my game. If you are playing a tight aggressive game (in ring games) the wins will come. Tournament play differs from ring game play, but against a weak field you should do above average with just being tight aggressive.

Have you read any books on poker? If not, I would reccomend it. Also, start posting hands that give you trouble in these forums and getting feedback.

[PizzaAggie]

Thanks for the advice. One question...how do I know that I am beat when I hold AJ, my oponent hold J7 and the flop is J74? This is just an example, and I am sure that I am blowing it out of proportion, but I want to get better. Maybe I am just remembering the bad hands and forgetting all the good hands I play. Unfortunately, my bad hands occur on my last hand of the tourney [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]...LOL.

[PizzaAggie]

I looking at 9 poker books on my bookshelf that I have read. Maybe my sampling size is too small and I need to play longer and be willing to experience fluctuations in my bankroll. I have read here people say that they are too focused on the money and it hurts their play. Maybe I need to forget about the money and not let losses hurt me so badly. As you stated, if I play my game, which is tight aggressive (usually less than 20% of hands played), then I should win in the long run. I just hate to lose. Guess I need to get over that.

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the advice. One question...how do I know that I am beat when I hold AJ, my oponent hold J7 and the flop is J74? This is just an example, and I am sure that I am blowing it out of proportion, but I want to get better. Maybe I am just remembering the bad hands and forgetting all the good hands I play. Unfortunately, my bad hands occur on my last hand of the tourney [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]...LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]


It happens. Just last week I had pocket Aces UTG, raised, everyone folded to the button, who called, and the BB called.

Flop was A-4-9, rainbow.

BB checked -- I bet -- button called -- BB folded.

Turn: 10

I bet, button called.

River: 5

I bet, button raised, I was about to 3-bet when I had the vision of 23 -- a HORRIBLE vision but a vision nevertheless. I was about to fold but then I questioned my vision and it cost me another $20, as the button had 2-3

sooted!

Instead of getting angry, I said good hand, mucked my Aces face-down, and went on to see the button give back the stack he won off with me, along with the other $400 in front of him that he had just sat down with a half hour before, in about another hour.

Bad beats happen. To everyone. Constantly.

It's part of the game.

And taking them is, as Staind teaches us, the price you pay to play that game.

Or you can learn to listen to the visions better.

Or, as my boy Bruce calls it, The Song.


Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[cnfuzzd]

This has been covered here

peace

john nickle

[zephyr]

One of the biggest things you should realize is that you need to be able to adjust to different games. If you're playing in low-limit ring games than your tight-aggresive style will probably get you the money.

If you're playing in tournaments, especially the no-limit variety, playing tight agrresive can be an enormous mistake at some points. The fact is that you need to be able to adjust. At some points in tournaments you need to be pushing preflop with more than 50% of your hands. At other points you need to be folding AKs preflop.

What I'm getting at is that you should make sure that your opponents are as bad as you "think" they are. I can think of a lot of times where I'd play J7s, and be correct in doing so. Once you've established whether they actually are fish or not, then take another look at your supposedly winning game.

I believe that one of the worst mistakes beginner players make is that they get attached to starting hands. AJs beats J7s ~70% of the time. If you're in a low limit ring game and lose an extra couple of bets in the 30% of the time AJs loses than you're probably alright. If you're playing in NL tourneys and lose your whole stack those 30% of the time then your in trouble.

Best Regards,

Zephyr

[Louie Landale]

Neither. Just adjust your attitude. If the bad plays never yeilded a win the bad players would stop doing it. Just like keeping folks at the slot-machines, these losing plays need to win to keep them doing it.

Your objective to "never get outdrawn" is rediculous; as is the correlarly "never outdraw the other guy". You ARE going to get outdrawn, even by clearly bad long shot hands; and you are also going to outdraw the opponent even when you wouln't have called had you known what he had.

If its a bad play then its good for you in the long run when he does it. Wait until you go a session betting top pair 10 times and getting 4 callers, and never losing a single one. Cha Ching.

- Louie

[donkeyradish]

It would be very surprising if bad players never got lucky, wouldn't it? In fact it would be terrible!

People sometimes make bad decisions and win. Which is why they'll make the same bad decision again and again.