getting full value from AA/KK

[Che]

When I play good players, I can usually get them all-in preflop with AA/KK when the blind/stack ratio is big (e.g. late in any tourney).

When I play weak players, I can usually get them all-in preflop with AA/KK regardless of the blind/stack ratio (e.g. Stars rebuy).

But against good players when the blind/stack ratio is medium, I'm wondering if I'm playing my AA/KK hands too fast and not getting enough value out of them.

Here's an example from the WCOOP #5:

I'm moved to a new table and open from the CO for 3xBB my first hand. I get the blinds.

A few hands later, I'm in the BB and find KK. I start getting really fidgety which reminds me why I don't play live. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Folded to the second largest stack at the table (41K) in the CO. Blinds are 300/600/a50. He opens for 1800, his third openraise in the five or six hands I've seen (all 3xBB).

Folded to me. Pot: 3150. I have 14500 after posting.

1. What should I do in the above scenario?
2. Would it change if I had 18-20K?
3. How about 30K+?
4. Would your answer(s) to questions 1, 2 and/or 3 change if you had AA instead of KK?

I apologize for asking such basic questions, but I think I may be losing opportunities to double (or at least win a bigger pot) by playing these hands too quickly.

Later,
Che

Edited to add pot size.

[Tosh]

Hi Che,

I make it 4.2k to go. Theres now 3k out there, if thats all I get I won't be that upset. If he's got a hand he's coming with you but if he's got cheese then trying to trap him is risky and not that profitable.

Normally when I hear people ask if they're not getting full value for big pairs, it means they don't raise enough with non premium hands. I know this isn't the case with you though, what gives? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Meatmaw]

Tosh,
what about hands like AJ, AQ, AK? If the flop has an A do you just suck it up and fold? I'm curious how you play if they come along and an Ace hits the flop. Thanks.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
it means they don't raise enough with non premium hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

just to clarify, you mean frequency of raises, not bet amount, right?? As in he should be raising more often, not raising a greater amount of chips.

[Tosh]

Yeah not raising enough hands, not chips.

[$DEADSEXE$]

I raise to 5000, hope he tries to make a move and come over me...by most likly going all in, If he doesn't then just pick up the 1800 and be happy with it.
When I want a player to come over the top of me...I usually like to raise to very round numbers...i.e. 5000,10000,15000,20000...depending on what the first raise was etc. Not sure why but it seems to work better than when I raise 2 or 3 times what the bet initial raise was.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
he should be raising more often, not raising a greater amount of chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm going to raise, I raise the same amount regardless of my holding with one possible exception. If the raise is borderline as to whether I should make my normal raise or just push in (because my normal raise pc's me), then I probably push in with QQ but still make my normal raise with AA. I believe this will be difficult for my opponents to distinguish since they have no way of knowing exactly where I "normally" draw the line between a normal raise and just pushing in.

I posted this hand because I thought my stack size relative to a normal reraise made this a borderline play, and I was wondering whether people would advocate pushing or just raising to 4500 (or whatever). I was also wondering if AA or KK would make any difference.

I'm still wondering since only one person has addressed the amount of the raise, and he only did it for KK. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Oh well,
Che

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
Normally when I hear people ask if they're not getting full value for big pairs, it means they don't raise enough with non premium hands. I know this isn't the case with you though, what gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know. I guess I'm just spending too much time second-guessing myself because I pushed in here and he folded. I think I played it too fast, but I wanted to double-check.

Thanks to all who responded,
Che

[Tosh]

I do think pushing was drastic, I think that would explain not getting any action.

[davidross]

That's the time to show your cards. You may not have maxed your win, but you might at least buy yourself a free steal later.