free play, failed check raise, FPS

DMBFan23 · #1 08-03-2004, 09:51 AM

Mainly looking for comments on turn play, but all other comments welcome as well. people were betting at this table with draws and middle pair/average kicker. This is also my first time using the hand converter. damn Bison, you da man...

Absolute Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (7 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB
Main Pot: 15.50 BB, between Hero and UTG.

kgrad5 · #2 08-03-2004, 09:55 AM

lead the turn, if it gets checked through and someone catches on the river then what?

TommyTutone · #3 08-03-2004, 10:51 AM

I probably would have bet the flop. Admittedly you are advertising top pair, but if this will hopefully drive out someone with an ace or king, so much the better.

kgrad5 · #4 08-03-2004, 10:56 AM

i dont mind the check on the flop, see what others think of their hand, if theres an early position bet i might consider folding, if theres a late position bet, i would probably raise, if its checked through, your hand is good

DMBFan23 · #5 08-03-2004, 01:07 PM

my reasoning on the turn was that after it checked through on the flop, as far as people knew I was checking and folding...and I didnt think it would check all the way around the turn with 7 people in the pot...I didnt know if I was intelligently continuing to mask strength and making the most of the fact that my check raise on the flop failed or suffering from a case of making a fancy play. top pair on the river was an easy bet.

cjromero · #6 08-03-2004, 02:14 PM

I respectfully disagree with kgrad on this one.

With 7 players seeing the flop, the only way I check this flop with top pair is if I am trying to induce CO or button to take a stab at the pot, so I can check-raise and hopefully knock out some overcards.

And would you really fold top pair/mediocre kicker to one bet from an EP player on Party? I can't see doing that unless I had a specific read that the EP player making the bet was a very, very solid player. Even then, he could be betting a straight draw, A9, or the like.

kgrad5 · #7 08-03-2004, 02:37 PM

i said "think" and thought about taking it back, but i was just stressing position, likely i wouldnt fold, but i would tread carefully. The check was a try at a checkraise which since there are 7 people in the pot, its pretty likely someone will bet and i dont think its such a bad move. I like to lead out in these situations personally, lead every street and only slow when im raised.. but i can see a case for the check raise [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

DMBFan23 · #8 08-03-2004, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

With 7 players seeing the flop, the only way I check this flop with top pair is if I am trying to induce CO or button to take a stab at the pot, so I can check-raise and hopefully knock out some overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, this was definitely a check raise attempt, most players would bet with a piece of this flop...K8, Q4, etc...I figured with 7 players to the flop, someone had a piece. maybe they did, maybe not, who knows.

with 7 players in the pot, should I have been confident in someone betting the turn? I figured the chance of many people faced with 2 bets cold at this point was worth the very small chance of it getting checked around twice, as my hand is still vulnerable, and I'd be willing to pay off a river raise the times that it does check around that second time and J8 or A2 catches and beats me, in order to build a bigger pot for the times that someone bets and I'm good. is this flawed reasoning?

ErrantNight · #9 08-03-2004, 03:10 PM

alright everyone...

you bet this flop... you have top pair into a field of no-bettors... don't get cute

you lost bets here when you have the best hand, and you'll lose bets by handing out free cards when someone catches with crap

bet to get more money into the pot when you have the best hand and to push people out of the pot when you don't have the best chance of improving when others might

headsup in a short-handed game maybe this play is ok, not here. don't get cute!

ErrantNight · #10 08-03-2004, 03:15 PM

the point here is that this is not a check raising situation.