Terrible play?

ggano · #1 08-02-2004, 11:53 PM

I won't post my thinking at the time, but I will say that it changed on almost every street. SB is loose and likes to bluff/semi-bluff a lot.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($9.75)
MP ($37.70)
Button ($28.35)
SB ($20.10)
Hero ($113.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: ($1) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50.

Turn: ($2) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2.

River: ($6) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $12
Main Pot: $12, between SB and Hero.

unagi · #2 08-03-2004, 05:22 AM

yes. where did you go wrong? everywhere. you didn't raise pre-flop, you didn't bet strong enough on the flop, you bet strong once the overcard hit, and you bet even stronger once the board had two pairs and an overcard. -EV plays in my book, all the way.

SkippingGoat · #3 08-03-2004, 08:32 AM

IMO this is the most profitable way to play a big overpair on a paired board.

1. Raise preflop. You have the best hand get your money it. There's only a 1/3 chance an overcard flops with QQ and if it does then you can decide to slow down if neccessary.

2. Bet or raise on the flop. You probably have the best hand and there's no reason to check or just call.

3. If you take the pot down great. If you're reraised fold. If you're just called that's a big warning sign of slowplayed open trips which low limit Party players love to do.

4. The slowplayer will usually check the turn hoping you'll bet. Don't. Check behind. Fold to a decent sized bet on the turn (though it's very rare to see a call then a bet).

5. Call any reasonable sized bet on the river. Your chances of having the guy beat are good enough to risk paying off the trips. If he checks to you on the river the coast is probably clear to bet.

In general, if you get any resistance with an overpair to a paired board (especially from the small blind when the board pair is medium/small) you want show it down as cheaply as possible. You're not looking to win a huge pot. You were fortunate in this situation not to face bets that escalated more quickly. Then you would have had a real problem.

In this specific scenario I fold to the river bet. Almost the only way you're winning is if he's playing the board.

SpiderMnkE · #4 08-03-2004, 08:33 AM

Uhhh... I see no betting by him... and certainly no strong betting.

I'd say raise pf.. and if you don't raise pf... raise the flop.

You have absolutely no idea where you stand throughout the entire hand. It is very uncomforable to play hands this way as you can't narrow your opponents hand down to anything.

Fnord · #5 08-03-2004, 08:36 AM

The real mystery here is his $100 stack...

SpiderMnkE · #6 08-03-2004, 08:43 AM

Goat,

Your plan for playing an overpair on a paired board sounds very very weak to me. He should raise pf.. and should assume his overpair is good unless he is facing significant action such as a reraise. I don't think there is any reason to assume that someone has trips untold he is flat out told they do.

At any rate a lot of this can be avoided with a pf raise. It is likely the BB calls you with any big card or connectors anyway... so don't freak out about getting no action with your queens...it happens... oh well... you will get called here plenty if you raise.

WiredPear · #7 08-03-2004, 08:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I won't post my thinking at the time, but I will say that it changed on almost every street.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your thinking changed because you were never able to figure out where you were in the hand. I agree with the others that you misplayed on every street. It would've been more straightforward if you had a better read on your opponent.

SkippingGoat · #8 08-03-2004, 10:52 AM

In my post I recommended a "bet or raise" on the flop. That is, bet if he checks, raise if he bets. I agree that simply calling on the flop is excessively cautious. I only recommended slowing down if your raise is called.

SpiderMnkE · #9 08-03-2004, 01:01 PM

Haha...somehow when I reread your advice... it changed 100%. Maybe I have terrible reading comprehension skills or something... cuz I remember reading...

"When the board pairs you could easily be behind trips... try to check it down and fold to any action."

I was confused that you had posted this... now I see that my confusion comes from my own inability to absorb information.

PokerFink · #10 08-03-2004, 01:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In my post I recommended a "bet or raise" on the flop. That is, bet if he checks, raise if he bets. I agree that simply calling on the flop is excessively cautious. I only recommended slowing down if your raise is called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second everything he said.

Just calling the flop bet sets you up for the nightmare that this hand turns into. You have to raise this flop, and raise it strong.

One more thing, Goat is right in that players with trips will generally just smooth call a raise and look to trap in smaller NL games. If you raise the flop and the SB calls, you have to be careful, even with QQ.