Two sets of quads, two different results.

SuitedSixes · #1 08-01-2004, 07:20 AM

Tonight I had quads and faced quads, both with very different results. Anything I could have done in either hand to change the outcome for the better?

Hand 1
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

SB ($35.32)
Hero ($92.29)
UTG ($23.30)
MP ($8)
CO ($27.10)
Button ($28.48)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, CO folds, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero raises to $2, MP folds, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($6.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($6.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, Button folds, SB folds.

SB - "hit ur pockets huh"

Final Pot: $13.50

In hindsight, maybe the PF-raise was what killed me. I felt so transparent the whole time, but with the K on the board, I felt a bet would have made anyone fold, and I was hoping someone would try to slow-play the K, but it never happened.

Hand 2
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 3 handed) converter

Hero ($77.89)
BB ($48.75)
Button ($29.01)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Button folds, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

Turn: ($2) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero raises to $25, BB raises to $45, Hero calls $20.

River: ($92) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2.75 (All-In), Hero calls $2.75.

Final Pot: $97.50

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Js Ts (straight, ace high).
BB shows Tc Qc (four of a kind, queens).
Outcome: BB wins $97.50. 
The $25 bet may have been excessive (especially in light of the check-raise), but after Hand 1, I was hoping to get paid for a good hand. It was a pretty obvious Full House board as well. And as it turned out, at the time all of the money went in I was about a 73% favorite.

Also was I just asking for trouble by having a $77.89 stack?

Daann · #2 08-01-2004, 08:32 AM

In hand 1, you have to bet the flop. There are too many cards that could cripple your action on the turn to slowplay. In hand 2, I'd either just take a flop or raise more.

SuitedSixes · #3 08-01-2004, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 2, I'd either just take a flop or raise more.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is where I am having problems with 6-Max. I feel like everyone can see my cards (darn pattern mappers!) It seems like if I raise pre-flop with AA (or anything good) everyone folds if I bet out on the flop and no-one bets if you check. Is the secret to winning big to never raise pre-flop? Or am I approaching these tables wrong where I need to just "Brunson" it and and pick up small pot after small pot and hope to run into someone who doesn't go away when I really hit something big (like the guy with the QQQQ did)?

Is there any advantage to taking money off the table when you are up X amount?

Justin A · #4 08-01-2004, 08:36 PM

Hand 1: You should almost never slowplay bottom set. Bet while someone still has a draw that they might call you with. That is a very draw heavy board, betting the flop is mandatory. Bet the turn also.

Hand 2: You just got unlucky when someone hit their nine-outer, you got the money in with the best hand, move on.

Justin A

EvlG · #5 08-02-2004, 03:50 AM

Be very careful of this thinking. A while back I fell into the trap of trying to create action on every hand and turn them into monsters - I found that I was just trapping myself most of the time.

The thing is, unless the other guy has some kind of cards, he just isn't going to play most of the time - fish or not. Furthermore, when he does have the cards, your habit of trying to lure him in works beautifully and then he will occasionally beat you for a large pot.

I have found that in the lower stakes NL games like the $25 and $50 NL tables on Party, the hands just play themselves most of the time. That is, playing your cards straightforwardly against most of the players works just fine. When they have a hand, they will make a mistake anyways and pay you off. Occasionally you find a really tricky player even at the low limits - in those cases you just try not to get into pots with them unless you have a great hand, and when you do, then you may think about some more subtle moves.

Some players occasionally make visible mistakes or bluffs in order to advertise. I wonder how effective that is on Party though; players come and go so fast I often doubt whether people pay attention.

It's frustrating to get dealt great cards and not get value, but tell yourself how much better it is to win a small pot than to lose a large one. Save your tricky plays for your tricky opponents.

SuitedSixes · #6 08-02-2004, 04:14 AM

Thanks fpr the advice. That is exactly what I am doing. I am building up my stack playing straightforwardly until I get something I perceive to be big, then I play cute and slide back to $25, which is why I am wondering if I am better off starting over at $25 anytime I get to $50. I can seriously build it up to $50 within an hour at most tables.