Worth of Limit as opposed to NL?

[silksuit]

hey all, i'm a relative newbian to poker. i've more read books about poker than actually played. i guess i'm risk-averse. in the literature i've read and the ideas that have formed in my head, the luck factor in limit hold 'em makes the game way less appealing to me. so my question is - why is it so popular? why don't good players play single table NL tourneys and win money more based on skill? how do pros make consistent money playing limit?

Excuse my ignorance. My curiousity outpaces my patience in finding/figuring these answers out on my own.

[Songwind]

I would be more likely to think that a limit ring game has *less* to do with luck than a tourney. The format "make your money now or not at all" rewards luckiness for that session, whereas ring games (limit or no-limit) "carry over" between sessions so the skillful player who minimizes his losses on a bad day is in better shape than his tournament brethren, and the winning player keeps his advantage instead of being reset to the same level as everyone else the next time.

[Snoogins47]

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I would be more likely to think that a limit ring game has *less* to do with luck than a tourney. The format "make your money now or not at all" rewards luckiness for that session, whereas ring games (limit or no-limit) "carry over" between sessions so the skillful player who minimizes his losses on a bad day is in better shape than his tournament brethren, and the winning player keeps his advantage instead of being reset to the same level as everyone else the next time.

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Agreed, in spades. The luck factor is most DEFINITELY more present in tournament play than in ring play. A horrible player could be a long term loser of the greatest magnitude in ring games, and get lucky and win the big tournament. All of a sudden, he's still a long term loser, but he's + money on his career.

And then here's the kicker, plain and simple.

You're playing a ring game, limit, and get sucked out on four times in a row. Okay, you're down a lot. You reach into your wallet, and keep playing, knowing that you're getting the best of the gambles (and if you stay off tilt, you win!)

Now, you buy into four tourneys in a row, and lose when you've got a big edge, early on. Oh look, four buy-ins gone, and you've gotta move over to the sidegames.

Tournament play, while it's truly more complex than my little analogy will make it seem, it's poker, in an isolated, contained, short-run environment.

The skilled player will make tournaments OR ring games +EV in the long term. And I'm done rambling now.

And BTW, as for limit being a random luck game... I think it takes a much more intense concentration than NL. Let's say you take down a big pot, but cost yourself 2 bets that you could've squeezed out.

"Oh well, I just won $200, who cares about that extra $40?"

Well, when you're averaging 1-2BB/hr... that's a big deal.

[pokerjo22]

You make money at poker by being a better player than the other players at the table. I think most people would agree that NL has more skill, but consequently the bad players lose their money faster. Thus, the fish tend to prefer limit, which in the long run might make limit a more attractive proposition to you.

[SirArthur]

Right now NL Ring games online are highly profitable if you are a competent player.

I seldom play limit, so I can't comment on that.

There is a larger element of luck involved in tourney play, you can't ride out the cold wave of cards like you can in ring play.
Like others stated here, the skilled tourney players are +EV in the long run.
In ring games I'll fold 100 or more consecutive hands if I keep getting rags, and just be patient for the good cards to hit. You aren't forced to play here, you use your discipline & patience by not being tempted to play marginal starting cards.
In tourney play, if a cold wave hits, you must eventually play, and make some moves to try and take down some pots with the escalating blinds.

[BusterStacks]

because poker is not about skill, it's about winning money. It's easier for an average player to win lots of money at limit than NL. because there are way more fish.