Poker and Romance: A Philosophical Discussion

SparrowHawk · #1 07-30-2004, 11:19 AM

I thought I would start a discussion on the art of poker (I will use NL Holdem as the referece) and how it correlates with romance and life.

Poker possesses many of these qualities: Strategy, focus, conflict resolution, opportunity creation, risk management, goal setting, perseverance, situation analysis, to name a few, and so does life!

In life we are always faced with making countless decisions every day. Let's take the goal of romance for a concrete example even though there are hundreds we can discuss.

The goal of romance is to find a partner that we can spend time with, that shares the same values and sense of life; someone who we can enjoy and benefit from in the short term and the long term. We can say the same about poker. We play in the short term for the enjoyment. We play for the long term for the knowledge and the wealth we can accumulate. We play to spend time with others. But this is still to general!!!

In romance one must first decide what he/she is looking for in a partner:
Are they religious?
Do they enjoy sports?
Are they honest?

In poker we must decide what we are looking for in a game:
Is this tight or loose?
Do I want to spend a minimum time playing or hours?
Do these players know how to play?

Decisions!!!

In romance we must recognize opportunity and not let it pass. If you see a person you or attracted to you should act on it, especially if you can pick up on some of the social tells of flirting.

In poker you must also be on the look out for tells that give you insight if you should act on that opportunity.

Lets equate dating to being in a hand with another player. You are on your first date ( Pre flop ). This means you have made the decision to pursue the value, either the person or the hand. You really don't know much about either right now so you have to use past experiences, ask questions, and examine mannerisms. If you decide that the OPPURTINUTY is valid you precede to the second date ( the flop ).

The flop is very much like a second date. It is where you the dynamics start to take shape and you formulate if you want to continue with seeing the person or the hand. On a second date we learn much more about a person. They relate a little more and we can see their character, learn about their lives, their goals, ext. Isn't the flop the same? We learn if we want to continue further with the hand, if the other player(s) are exhibiting any signs that they want to continue or exit. Is there a chance to take this to the next level.

Say we check. How is that like a second date? Well on a second date both parties might still be unsure about how they feel so they take it slow, they fell each other out a little more, maybe take it to a third date, "she seems kind of nice, I'll go out with her again".

Say someone raises on the flop? One of three things will happen: Fold, Call, Raise. Same on the second date. Say the women grabs the guy and wants to get physical. This is a definite raise wouldn't you say! Now the guy can decide if he wants to reciprocate (call), grab her and do the nasty (raise) or push her away ( fold ).

If we make it to the turn it would be similar to actually dating the person, maybe a few weeks. Here we really start to decide if it is worth our time and effort to pursue the relationship or hand any further. Maybe we are pot committed? Maybe we are emotionally committed? There are many examples that can be equated at this level in the hand or relationhip.

The river is where we are fully involved. We have been dating for over 6 months. We have a good idea of who the person is, how they act, and what there intentions are. At the this point in a personal relationship is where the long term decision get made. Do I want to marry this person? Is this the right individual to risk spending my whole life with? Should I settle? The river card is the same. We must ask ourselves if we are willing to get all our chips in the pot. Put it on the line or check and get out of the hand if possible. The fact that the river so often makes someone's hand is also a point we should address.

In a relationship there are usually critical moments when either party has to make a make or break decision. For example. You are out with friends and this beautiful girl, sweet, smart, sexy, hits on you. Wow what a river! Could completely change how you feel about your girlfriend. Opportunities have presented themselves, risk management comes into play. Should you explore this women? So many questions have to be asked.

A little about bluffing. Couldn't we equate bluffing to the "game playing" in dating? I mean don't we all bluff in our relationships? Test our partner's character and limits? "I'll call you tomorrow" and then don't call, intentionally for 2 days? Or tell your girlfriend you are thinking about going to Vegas with all the guys, just to see how she reacts?

I am considering writing a book on the subject or poker and life. It would be a great undertaking, but I think it would be extremely helpful to everyone who plays.

If we could apply some of the techniques of poker to life, I think our lives would be much easier to live, more logical, less emotional.

The next post I will discuss emotion and its role in poker.

I would love to hear everyone thoughts and ideas. Lets try and keep it the realm of romance and poker for now. I know there are many other examples we could use.

For now,

Sparrowhawk

Mayhap · #2 07-30-2004, 11:56 AM

I like to go for the checkraise.
/M

corn_dogg · #3 07-30-2004, 01:16 PM

When I wake up in the morning I think to myself, I better shower and brush my teeth, its positive EV. Gotta put yourself in those situations to get lucky. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

jedi · #4 07-30-2004, 01:21 PM

The post is all fine and good, but it's likely that most people are just skipping the middle stuff and looking at scoring at the end.

foster · #5 07-30-2004, 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The post is all fine and good, but it's likely that most people are just skipping the middle stuff and looking at scoring at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll go all in on that one.

rkaufman · #6 07-30-2004, 02:15 PM

The last thing you want is to have it checked through! Much too risky!

Woody

FrankLu99 · #7 07-30-2004, 08:37 PM

i didnt read any posts onthis thread

in terms of women i think most people want LAG. loose - agg is the way to go (so i have heard)

Malarky · #8 07-31-2004, 01:42 AM

Unfortunately, I'm a 72o. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

MicroBob · #9 07-31-2004, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I mean don't we all bluff in our relationships? Test our partner's character and limits? "I'll call you tomorrow" and then don't call, intentionally for 2 days? Or tell your girlfriend you are thinking about going to Vegas with all the guys, just to see how she reacts?

[/ QUOTE ]

somebody has a little bit to learn about emotional and relationship maturity.

i think this topic would be more appropriate in a different forum.

Lawrence Ng · #10 07-31-2004, 06:36 AM

I think this subject would be better discussed in the pyschology forum.

But off the top of my head there can be a couple of aspects that can be applied to both poker and relationships (for men anyways)

1. Let the ego go. Egoes are what can really hurt us in the long run because it blinds us.

2. If the odds aren't there, fold. So if she's not worth it, dump her early and save the grief. Wait for a better "hand" to come along and put the money there.

3. Keep the emotions down. Let her keep guessing. Keep the mystery. Don't let her figure you out.

4. Respect the game. Respect her. Don't assume things.

5. Go in expecting to win, but also expect to lose. No one scores a win 10/10 times. Heck, in the game of dating we're lucky to have a girl go on a first date 3/10 times. So poker is really the better bet.