Lose the least and win the most, but...

Twestid · #1 07-23-2004, 11:23 AM

Okay, we all know you're supposed to lose the least with your bad hands and win the most with your good. Playing low-limit flop games, I've got "lose the least" down pat, I can tell you that. I just finished yet another losing session of LL HE in which my total losses were about 6 big bets over 100 hands. In essence, all my losses came from getting no help in the blinds.

Historically, the games I've been able to consistently beat are spread-limit stud and (small-stakes) PL/NL, where "win the most" isn't that hard to do. The obvious solution is to give up strict limit poker forever, but I don't want to do that, because I know these loose-passive limit games are beatable. So why can't *I* beat them? One possibility is that I play too tightly, but come on, "fit or fold" was made for the kinds of games I play in. If the flop didn't hit me, it hit one of my 4-6 opponents, I guarantee it. So I play VERY tightly...and I come out behind except when the cards run over me.

In spread-limit or PL/NL, I can make up for my tight play with the occasional huge win, but that doesn't seem possible in limit. Suggestions?

highlife · #2 07-23-2004, 11:26 AM

approx how many hands of limit poker have you played??

pudley4 · #3 07-23-2004, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So I play VERY tightly

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of your problems.

playerfl · #4 07-23-2004, 03:28 PM

if you read the old sklansky book ( not the new one) you should know that it was written for a 10/20 game a long time ago, and the conditions in today's loose low limit games are different. You have to tolerate higher variance and you will get pot odds to go for draws much more often.

franco · #5 07-23-2004, 03:49 PM

I'm a newbie with only six months under my belt. I know I have a lot to learn. But I'm playing well, winning some tournaments and sometimes doing well in live cash games. But I also play tight and am losing in low limit games. For example, I just got As-Q UTG. Big blind raises twice blinds. I fold. Given that I am following the slansky books and others like it, am I playing too tight if I'm only seeing 28% of flops.

Twestid · #6 07-23-2004, 05:26 PM

I was asked how many hands I've played. I've got records going back to around 7,000 hands of limit HE, about 5,500 at $.50-$1 and 1,500 at $1-2. I used to do much worse at $1-$2, but lately, I've actually been doing better there, especially on UB, because the games are tight and I can intimidate people. Totalling up all my $.50-$1 HE hands, I'm break-even. The problem is, I used to be doing better (or maybe getting luckier, I'm not sure--I didn't keep as detailed records then as I do now).

I've played about 2,500 hands of low-limit stud and am up about 160 big bets, not counting casino play, where I have positive monetary results, but never counted hands. I nearly always play on-line now.

I guess the real question is why I play HE or Omaha-8 at all. Ego, I guess. I know they CAN be beaten, so I'm determined to learn how. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Nottom · #7 07-23-2004, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One possibility is that I play too tightly, but come on, "fit or fold" was made for the kinds of games I play in. If the flop didn't hit me, it hit one of my 4-6 opponents, I guarantee it. So I play VERY tightly...and I come out behind except when the cards run over me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this isn't a chance for Ed to plug his new book, I don't know what is.

.... well no point in waiting on him to do it. Buy Small Stake Holdem by Ed Miller and S&M (its the book with the bright red cover you see when you first arrive on this site) its written specifically to help you beat the games you described.

PotatoStew · #8 07-23-2004, 06:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a newbie with only six months under my belt. I know I have a lot to learn. But I'm playing well, winning some tournaments and sometimes doing well in live cash games. But I also play tight and am losing in low limit games. For example, I just got As-Q UTG. Big blind raises twice blinds. I fold. Given that I am following the slansky books and others like it, am I playing too tight if I'm only seeing 28% of flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were UTG, and folded to a BB raise? That means you had already limped or raised yourself -- I'm pretty sure you should NOT have folded here. This is limit, right?