Calling two raises preflop with 4d5d profitable?

[ChessMan]

Hi,

In early position I hold A10o. I decide this is playable so I think about raising or not. I decide not to and limp in.
One guy raised (player A), another guy called (player B), and everyone else folds. I decide that since I limped in they might think I'm holding garbage, so I reraise. Both other players call. I feel I'm overbetting, but I want some initiative on the Flop if I catch an overpair, or perferably have a nut straight draw.
This is a no limit game with BB of 50 and I'm short stacked (600 chips) because I haven't won a hand yet in this 20 seat sit and go. I was just randomly moved to this table so I don't know the players and they don't know me.

Anyway, Player B won cause he caught a straight on the turn.

On the flop, Ad 2d 6h, I catch an ace and bet half the pot. So dude has an inside straight draw, and a flush draw. I should have bet the whole pot. He had from his perspective about a 45% chance of getting a winning hand (unless I don't hold the same suit) and if the other guy folds, he has no implied odds worth the call since I have all my chips in the pot already and there aren't very many relative to the call.

As it turned out player A called all the way to the river too even after $500 bets from player B. He must have been holding AK or AA or something good.

I just took a chance on that hand and didn't think about a 45suited being there.

Is this common? It seems like it would be a profitable play if you can execute it right and get paid off if you hit.

I play connectors too, but usually only in good position and when there are plenty of players in seeing the flop so I can increase my payoff when I hit. I don't go in bad position or short handed unless it's super cheap.

Lesson learned!! Just let me know if this is good strategy. It looks like it is to me.

[astroglide]

I decide that since I limped in they might think I'm holding garbage, so I reraise.

against a raise ATo is most often garbage.

I want some initiative on the Flop if I catch an overpair

it is impossible to catch an overpair.

or perferably have a nut straight draw

you can only have a gutshot to the nut straight.

[ChessMan]

What about whether calling two raises 45 suited preflop is sound strategy? Is this generally regarded as a profitable call? It might be one of those things you might have to bluff once in a while to make profitable. I am not comfortable bluffing yet, I've only played for two weeks. Therefore maybe I should avoid trying to lay the same trap.

[Dov]

What about whether calling two raises 45 suited preflop is sound strategy? Is this generally regarded as a profitable call?

No, it is not profitable, usually. You failed to mention the tourney stats, though, other than that you were short stacked. In this specific case, your opponent may have had an ok play.

It might be one of those things you might have to bluff once in a while to make profitable.

You can't bluff by calling.

[Akasha]

Im no expert , I know this.

But as Astroglide pointed out in the first reply, this entire post was silliness. Am I in the poker humor forum?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
What about whether calling two raises 45 suited preflop is sound strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't worry about him until your own preflop strategy is sound. Limp reraising with ATo or calling 3 with 45s? hmmm.

[ QUOTE ]
This is a no limit game with BB of 50 and I'm short stacked (600 chips) because I haven't won a hand yet in this 20 seat sit and go.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have plenty of chips.

Work on your own game for now.

b

[ChessMan]

Alright, I'll try this a final time. Please, stop commenting on my poor play. I know it was poor.

My only question: is it generally considered long term profitable to play 45 suited when there are only 2 other people seeing the flop and they are representing fairly strong hands like AK or QQ or something.

I know that usually you won't hit, so usually it isn't profitable, but that one time you hit, you might be able to make a lot of chips. Therefore is it actually a profitable long term play?

If you don't know just don't reply. If I get no answer, I'll work out the math myself and I'll post the results here in a few days. This is the poker theory room right? Let's advance the theory then.

[Louie Landale]

ATo early at a full table is a routine toss; but calling only costs a little. Calling-and-reraising is obscene unless its you and the maniac in the blind; even then you are better off just calling.

Playing this trash in a tournament is even worse. ReRaising out of position without any chance to steal the pot is hopeless in No Limit, unless you really believe you can get someone to lay down a pair when you bluff AT the pot; whereas they would call had you NOT 3-bet.

You've got too many trouble-hand problems to waste time worrying about whether calling raises with 54s might sometimes be correct.

Fix the gas leak before the water leak.

- Louie

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
My only question: is it generally considered long term profitable to play 45 suited when there are only 2 other people seeing the flop and they are representing fairly strong hands like AK or QQ or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

1 - You aren't even looking at the question correctly yet. (Hint: Calling 2 raises preflop does not always equal calling one raise then calling a second.)

2 - You never gave us all the information we needed. (Hint: Preflop raises in NL are not limited to the amount of the BB.)

[ChessMan]

Okay here's a hypothetical:

You are in late position. You hold 45 suited.

A couple players fold, one calls, one raises the minimum. So to call now you need to call 2xBB. You call. It's now back to the original limper. He raises! Hmmm. It's to back to the original raiser now and he calls. So now you need to call another 2xBB I think. So you call holding 45 suited. On the flop you have two cards to make your straight, and there is an Ace so there will be action.

Lets just say the flop is A36 and the 3 and 6 are even the right suit, so you have a flush draw too.

So the guy in early position likes the ace because he just made a pot-sized bet, and the next guy calls. You call too.

If you hit your straight, that's good. You'll probably make a lot of money because the other two guys have top pair.

Not all flops turn out that way. Sometimes there's a straight draw, but no Ace or King or anything anyone cares to make big bets at. So even if your straight hits, you don't make a lot of money.

The vast majority of the time the flop will not be helpful at all and so you've wasted 4xBB in calling preflop. If every time you hold 45 suited there happens to be a 4xBB call to make with two other players in how often will you hit your straight? The level of the call has nothing to do with how often you'll hit, but it does make it more expensive. I doubt you can make a profit over the long haul.

So there's the info. I can't spend any more time explaining it.