Ed, don't be mad

[kyro]

Is folding the river for one more bet silly? After the raise on the turn, I can't imagine I'm ahead here, even 1 out of 10 times...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 (poster) calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 8.75 BB, won by MP3.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to MP3.</font>

[Sent]

Nothing wrong with this fold, I might've even folded the turn. If he has any A or a Jack then you have 2 outs.

Oops sorry didn't notice your gutshot, forget folding on the turn lol

-Sent

[chief444]

If you were sure enough to fold the river for one bet, then why did you call the turn raise? The pot odds weren't enough to call.

Note: I'm not saying you misplayed the hand. I think this is a fairly interesting hand and am just curious of what you were thinking of when playing the turn and river as you did. There are times I may play this the same but you gave no information on your opponent.

[tardigrade]

I really, really hate these cards, because they just won't let you fold. Considering he called the flop, he either has you beat, he's on a flush or straight draw, or he's an idiot. Regardless, I don't think he folds on the turn. I think you're right to bet out on it, though. You have to call the raise, since you have 4-6 outs to the best hand. On the river ... well you're heads up and you can beat a bluff, so call it.

[Bill Smith]

He has 6 outs (2 Q's and 4 K's) barring a flush draw or made straight with 7.75:1 odds, so I think the turn call is okay.

[tardigrade]

[ QUOTE ]
He has 6 outs (2 Q's and 4 K's) barring a flush draw or made straight with 7.75:1 odds, so I think the turn call is okay.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was thinking, too, since if he's beat already, then the spades are clean outs. Maybe it should be discounted somewhat since his opponent may have already made a straight on the turn which kills two outs and splits the pot on the other four (edit: well, three in that case). I'm not sure how much to shave off of it, though.

[Bill Smith]

I would've called this down for two reasons:

1. Some people will raise this turn with either a T, a gutshot, or both. I wouldn't be surprised to see him flip over KT or QT.

2. He's new to the table and it would be nice to see his hand, even if you don't win this 1 in 10 times.

Of course, I could be suffering from rectal-cranial inversion this morning.

[chief444]

Assuming the K outs are always good here is a mistake. You need to give some consideration to those times you will split the pot or even lose to a flush or full house. These times are rare but you barely have odds to call if 6 outs were clean.

Again let me say that I may play this hand exactly the same but there's a lot more I consider here than just the pot odds.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
If you were sure enough to fold the river for one bet, then why did you call the turn raise? The pot odds weren't enough to call.

Note: I'm not saying you misplayed the hand. I think this is a fairly interesting hand and am just curious of what you were thinking of when playing the turn and river as you did. There are times I may play this the same but you gave no information on your opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have trouble paying attention to my opponents online, which I KNOW is costing me bets. It's something I need to work on. Also, I didn't decide on folding if I didn't hit until about 5 seconds before my time ran up on the river. I called rather quickly without thinking about it, I was rather ticked because I realized I was behind. I knew I had 6 outs, which is why I called the turn, but figured there was no chance I could possibly be ahead on the river.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I called rather quickly without thinking about it, I was rather ticked because I realized I was behind. I knew I had 6 outs, which is why I called the turn, but figured there was no chance I could possibly be ahead on the river.


[/ QUOTE ]
The turn call was thin for reasons I stated in the other post IF you know you will fold the river unimproved. I may not have been as convinced that you were behind on the turn. There are some opponents who may try to bluff or semibluff the turn but almost always give up on a bluff after one bet/raise is called. In other words, when you call the turn it appears very unlikely that you would fold the river and therefore makes a river bluff more unlikely.

Against an unknown I would probably call the river as well although I wouldn't expect to win very often.