Q9s - comment on play (some thinking required on each street)

[btspider]

Loose passive table. No specific player reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks,

Chance of blind raising behind was quite slim. I play K5s type hands here, so Q9 has some straight potential to make up for the 1 rank further from the nut flush.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Its fold or raise as far as I'm concerned. AQ would take away my K outs, but there was no PF raise. I also have a backdoor flush.. so I'm raising. How much should I discount my heart outs with all these cold-callers? 50% less? 75% less? 95% less?

Turn: (10.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Even more outs. I could raise for some value right now, but I wouldn't want to be 3-bet. Additionally, my relative position to the turn bettor is perfect. I can raise the field if I improve and BB leads the river, so I called.

River: (15.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB &lt;snip&gt;, UTG+1 &lt;snip&gt;, MP1 &lt;snip&gt;.

Nice, backdoor flush is well hidden, but the board paired. I didn't get the river bet from BB. Not a great relative position to this new bettor who likely improved. Did he call all those bets with two pair and just boat up? I went for the 3 overcallers since I thought a raise would fold everyone and open myself to a 3-bet. Snipped the number of overcallers so no one is biased [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Final Pot: 18.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 18.50 BB, between some people who I forgot to snip out.

[JohnShaft]

Spider I pretty much like your play on every street. (PF is borderline I think, but if you play this well postflop I wouldn't worry about it).

I like that you have a plan on every street and the plan also makes sense.

I was going to suggest Raising the Turn for value, and see you gave a rationale against it. I'm a big fan of the "not raising so I *can* raise if I hit" school, but I think I just might raise here anyway. In fact I know I would if the 3-bet wasn't that likely and most of them would call. You also describle the table as loose-passive, which to me is the *perfect* table texture TO make this raise.
I don't think there's a huge amount in it though.

But consider, you didn't raise hoping to raise the River and then didn't even end up Raising the River... This means there's more value in Raising the Turn if you aren't often going to Raise the River.
That's the problem with not raising the Turn.

But I like the fact you're thinking so well through the hand that I can't argue with your rationale.
Well played. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[kenewbie]

Well played on all streets.

Particularly I like the fact that you just call the river, a position where most 2+2 microers will raise (no offence to anyone but I think that is true).

You have a reason for every decision and its well thought out.

k

[btspider]

Thanks for the comments. I thought this was a good hand for discussion because it had so many good micro/beginner decision points like value raising, backdoor outs, cold callers chasing, relative position considerations, and going for overcalls on the river. I'll post the results later.

The board pairing and flushing me threw me for a loop and when I saw all those potential over-callers lined up I failed to raise.. surely BB would have called and that would be enough. Yeah, I think I missed a raise on the turn or river, they are almost interchangeable. I still like waiting until the river because BB will likely lead out again and if the heart flush hits somone, it should be obvious and I might be able to muck a straight [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[btspider]

More views, but no more responses. More comments would be appreciated, but here are the results:

BB calls with QJo
MP2 shows A5o
Hero has a Q high flush

MHIG

[tech]

I disagree on not raising the river. It would take three overcalls (unlikely) just to match one coldcall (likely) because the original bettor will call too. Plus you have a chance of making much more. A potential 3-bet doesn't bother me -- could easily be a 5 or a smaller flush.

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
Particularly I like the fact that you just call the river, a position where most 2+2 microers will raise (no offence to anyone but I think that is true).


[/ QUOTE ]

That is because raising has the highest expectation. You have to be dead sure of your reads to go for overcalls here.

[JerseyTom]

[ QUOTE ]
More views, but no more responses. More comments would be appreciated, but here are the results:

BB calls with QJo
MP2 shows A5o
Hero has a Q high flush

MHIG

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 is your bestest buddy now...