Heads up against GoT

cold_cash · #1 07-16-2004, 12:01 AM

Do you bet the turn like I did? How about the flop call?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: cold_cash is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, cold_cash raises, 4 folds, SB (GeeOhTee) 3-bets, 1 fold, cold_cash calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
GeeOhTee bets, cold_cash calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
GeeOhTee checks, cold_cash bets, GeeOhTee raises, cold_cash calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
GeeOhTee bets, cold_cash folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB
Main Pot: 8.50 BB, won by GeeOhTee.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to GeeOhTee.

Alobar · #2 07-16-2004, 12:04 AM

I wouldn't bet for the exact reason what happened. You HAVE to call his checkraise.

Nate tha' Great · #3 07-16-2004, 12:09 AM

When tight aggressive player is betting the whole way, and you're calling the whole way, and he checks it to you on the turn on a card that just happens to give you 12 miraculous outs to the nuts, you had damned well better take that free card.

gamblore99 · #4 07-16-2004, 12:18 AM

What do you guys think about raising the flop?

I think it would be weak, as at best you would be up against AQ. is this line of thinking correct?

Alobar · #5 07-16-2004, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you guys think about raising the flop?

I think it would be weak, as at best you would be up against AQ. is this line of thinking correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it because most likely a 3 bet out of the blinds he is holding a higher pocket pair or at least big painted broadways. A reason to raise the flop would be if there was some chance you can win right there, but with pretty much all of his probable holdings he is going to call your raise so you really have no chance to win it immediately. Also on the same token, hes putting you on a hand worthy of an open raise from EP that also wasnt worthy of a cap with posistion, and that board didnt hit alot of those hands, so it looks like a semi-bluff/"I want the free card if the turn doesn't hit me" raise, and I don't think GOT lets you get away with something like that.

GuyOnTilt · #6 07-16-2004, 12:41 AM

Just so everybody knows, my turn check wasn't very good.

GoT

cold_cash · #7 07-16-2004, 12:55 AM

I made this same mistake on the 2+2 table awhile back. I picked up a flush draw on the turn and walked right into a checkraise.

I guess I need to think more and bet less. Is there ever a time when this is a good semi-bluff? There must be.

Nate tha' Great · #8 07-16-2004, 01:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just so everybody knows, my turn check wasn't very good.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I'm getting increasingly down on these types of turn check-raises (check-raises with a strong hand heads up when you have been leading). It seems to me that a number of bad things can happen when you check the turn with the intention of raising:

1) A player with a weak draw like a gutshot will get a free card that can win the whole pot for him, when he otherwise would have folded or called incorrectly.

2) A player with a moderate strength made hand who was planning on raising the turn will bet when checked to and will call your check-raise, but by betting you would have been able to get three bets in on the turn rather than two.

3) Similarly, a player with a strong draw who was planning on raising as a semibluff may put two bets in on his draw rather than three, and will occasionally put zero bets in rather than three.

4) A player with a weak but showdownable made hand like bottom pair, who was planning on calling both the turn and the river, will bet but fold to your check-raise. That will cost you at least one bet, and sometimes more if he could have made a second best hand on the river (like trips or two pair against your set). Alternatively, the same player may check behind on the turn, so it costs him one less bet to see a showdown.

There are benefits to the play, espeically on certain boards against certain opponents, and I think it should be in any good player's bag of tricks, but my sense is that players are becoming more alert to it (I've been seeing a *lot* more folds lately in my online games), and it might be something that has run its course.

Brian · #9 07-16-2004, 01:54 AM

Hi cold_cash,

I'd call the River. I don't trust GOT. I really don't trust him when I'm getting 8:1.

-Brian

Sarge85 · #10 07-16-2004, 02:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When tight aggressive player is betting the whole way, and you're calling the whole way, and he checks it to you on the turn on a card that just happens to give you 12 miraculous outs to the nuts, you had damned well better take that free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

----My new Mantra.....

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]