Throwing away QQ with no overcards

arkady · #1 07-15-2004, 11:16 AM

Another one of my crazy folds, but I felt that the stack size of the poor player was important.

Absolute Poker 5/10 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG (VeryLooseBetsWithNothing) calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB (SeemsReasonable) calls, BB calls, UTG (VeryLooseBetsWithNothing) calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SeemsReasonable checks, BB checks, VeryLooseBetsWithNothing bets, Hero raises, CO folds, SeemsReasonable calls, BB folds, VeryLooseBetsWithNothing calls.

Turn: (8 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SeemsReasonable checks, VeryLooseBetsWithNothing checks, Hero bets, SeemsReasonable raises, VeryLooseBetsWithNothing 3-bets $26 (All-In), Hero FOLDS , SeemsReasonable calls.

River: (14 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 13.80 BB, between SeemsReasonable and VeryLooseBetsWithNothing.
Pot 2: 0.20 BB, returned to SeemsReasonable.

Any guesses on who had what?
Who do you think is the one to be afraid of here?

Talex · #2 07-15-2004, 11:35 AM

Wacky. I think the stack size of the poor player is important, but in totally the other direction. I would have assumed that given his 'bets with nothing' tendency UTG is in desperation mode and trying to buy a hand on a weak flop. You may be beat by Reasonable and J8, or maybe he's one of those players that seem to like limping jacks because they're 'always' beat. Mostly he seems to have picked up a jack with perhaps a flush draw.[edit] Forgot to add the possibility of a slowplayed set [/edit]. I just couldn't have laid this down. I cap the turn because I want Reasonable paying me now if he's drawing and can get away on the river.

-Tim

Guido · #3 07-15-2004, 11:40 AM

I don't like this one. I don't think UTG is the one to be afraid of. He probably has a pair but not much more. If you have to be afraid of anybody at all it's the SB but what could he have? A slowplayed set? You said he was reasonable so 2 pair doesn't seem logical on a board like this. I would put him on AJo or something like that and that's why I would cap, especially because it's shorthanded. I don't think the 3-bet from UTG means much. I would check behind when the SB calls. I would at least call the 3-bet because I don't think you're behind if you are at all.

Guido

arkady · #4 07-15-2004, 11:43 AM

I am going to tell you that I was not particularly concerned with UTG as he has shown tendencies that would discredit any of his raises.

Alobar · #5 07-15-2004, 12:02 PM

so far it looks like I'm the only one who agrees with the fold. What kind of hand is a reasonable player going to call a raise with from the SB, and then two cold on the flop to checkraise you on the turn? AJs maybe, but I think he's prolly got the set.

The Armchair · #6 07-15-2004, 12:03 PM

I would have put the reasonable player on A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and figured that the very loose player could be full of it. In any event, I'd cap that turn, as I think I am way ahead of the reasonable player, and at least this way I'm not drawing to a dry side pot.

The very loose player could have two pair or could have junk. I'm thinking Jx two-pair.

Guido · #7 07-15-2004, 12:04 PM

So why are you so scared of the C/R? The 3-bet doesn't mean much IMO. I think you should only fold when you are very sure he has a set. In all other cases I would at least call and probably cap.

Guido

Guido · #8 07-15-2004, 12:08 PM

Don't forget it's 7 handed. Folding is too easy and you have to be very sure he has a set to make a fold correct.

Thanks,

Guido

P.S. Lance Armstrong rocks...

Talex · #9 07-15-2004, 12:12 PM

99, 1010, I'd say AK for a lot of players, and I think AJ is a real possibility. If he's reasonable he doesn't have any faith in the maniac's raise on the flop and the bet is sort of assumed from the preflop raiser, so he could be calling with all kinds of stuff. When he checkraises the turn he could have a jack, a set, nines, tens, or AK and is probing the waters to see if his overcards are good, especially if it's AKs with a flush draw. I think there's a lot of hands queens beat here.

-Tim

Holm Fries · #10 07-15-2004, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
99, 1010, I'd say AK for a lot of players, and I think AJ is a real possibility. If he's reasonable he doesn't have any faith in the maniac's raise on the flop and the bet is sort of assumed from the preflop raiser, so he could be calling with all kinds of stuff. When he checkraises the turn he could have a jack, a set, nines, tens, or AK and is probing the waters to see if his overcards are good, especially if it's AKs with a flush draw. I think there's a lot of hands queens beat here.

-Tim

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I can't think of an instance where I would not at least call this down. Doesn't the small stack size discredit the three bet rather than make it scarier? This is the third post today where our hero mucks QQ with no overcards. Worlds are colliding....