AA against many opponents and a 2+2er

[arkady]

Lots of opponents here with some reasonable reads - I decided for that particular scenario to charge them on the turn instead of the flop thinking that most of them will probably stick around anyway. Anyone play this differently?

Note: 2+2er is aware of who I am.

Absolute Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 <font color="purple">(VeryLoosePassive)</font> calls, MP1 <font color="purple">(LooseAsaGoose)</font> calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, Button <font color="purple">(HyperAggressive)</font> calls, <font color="CC3333">SB <font color="purple">(2+2er)</font> 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 <font color="purple">(VeryLoosePassive)</font> calls, MP1 <font color="purple">(LooseAsaGoose)</font> calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button <font color="purple">(HyperAggressive)</font> calls, SB <font color="purple">(2+2er)</font> calls, BB calls, UTG+1 <font color="purple">(VeryLoosePassive)</font> calls, MP1 <font color="purple">(LooseAsaGoose)</font> calls.

Flop: (24 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">2+2er bets</font>, BB calls, VeryLoosePassive calls, LooseAsaGoose calls, Hero calls, HyperAggressive calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">2+2er bets</font>, BB folds, VeryLoosePassive calls, LooseAsaGoose folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, HyperAggressive folds, 2+2er calls, VeryLoosePassive calls.

River: (21 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
2+2er checks, VeryLoosePassive checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, 2+2er calls, VeryLoosePassive calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 24 BB, between Hero, 2+2er and VeryLoosePassive.</font>

[sublime]

I decided for that particular scenario to charge them on the turn instead of the flop thinking that most of them will probably stick around anyway.

Raise the flop. This pot is already huge and calling does nothing to improve your chances of dragging it. If you are fortunate the SB with make it 3 bets(likely, as I am assuming KK-JJ here) and force the field to call 2.

[arkady]

Wouldnt the SB making it 3 bets start cutting down the field? Or is the pot large enough that I actually want to win the pot ASAP?

[zram21]

With 12 BBs already in the pot on the flop you want to limit the field. Although it certainly doesn't look like it hapened on a hand like this you need to get that back door diamond draw to fold not to mention hands like middle pair would be correct in calling only 1 small bet in a pot this size.

[StellarWind]

You have a one-pair hand that could be wiped out in the blink of an eye.

Raise the flop and charge everyone as much as possible. Don't waste tears on people who fold because it's a big pot and you are not safe from anyone. Besides, most of them have already called one bet despite knowing you probably have a big overpair. What makes you think anyone will fold for two more bets?

Would you play this way with KK? I hope not. That means you showed SB your hand on the turn and warned him not to give any more action without a set. Another reason not to play this way.

Your plan to trap the entire field depends on tricking someone who shouldn't be fooled. SB's probably not going to bet a doubtful hand again with four callers including you. The worst would be when SB has AK and checkfolds the turn.

[surfdoc]

I am with the others here. I raise this flop 100% of the time. The pot is huge. Maximize your chance of winning. There are plent of folks playing A3s or A7s or 78s or 89s or even K3s, K7s here and may fold for 2 SB but not 1. Drag the pot as quickly as you can or make them pay. Next hand.

[arkady]

Both mucked, but 2+2er told me had QQ.

I realize now that waiting until the turn is a bad move given the texture of the hand. Specifically in that case, I could have charged the field or folded some by raising 2+2er since he himself would easily want to limit the field with his JJ-KK and at that point I would be much safer and that much closer to an already inflated pot.

[MaxPower]

I don't think raising and allowing the SB to 3-bet will do anything to limit the field. This pot is so big that anyone with as little as 3 outs should call. Two outers will probably call as well.

However, you have a decent chance of getting 5 players to put in 1 1/2 BB each when you have way the best of it. That's 6 1/2 BB. By waiting for the turn, some of the players will fold to the 2+2ers bet and you will probably not get as much money into the pot.

Yes, you would like to increase you chances of winning the pot, but your position makes it difficult to eliminate players and this pot is so large that very few people should be folding. From your description of them, there is no way they are folding the flop. Might as well take the line that gets the most money in the pot as the board is not very threatening.

So I still think you should raise the flop, but for different reasons than everyone else.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
So I still think you should raise the flop, but for different reasons than everyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I agree completely. I think limiting the field would be a great thing, but it probably won't happen. So I'll settle for the money.

This is a key point in my poker philosophy. When I have an edge I put my chips in and let my opponents do the worrying. It's none of my business whether they pay me with their chips (call) or their outs (fold).

[arkady]

both what you and max said sounds very reasonable. It was my faulty thinking that I could extract more money with a turn raise, but not only can I not - but I also lose the slight possibility to limit the field.