I have grown weak.

nothumb · #1 07-14-2004, 12:58 PM

I don't know how many times I've told people to bet this river.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Suzie is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Suzie raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Suzie bets, BB folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets, Suzie raises, MP2 folds, CO calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Suzie runs out to buy some Vagisil.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between CO and Suzie.

J.R. · #2 07-14-2004, 01:22 PM

The turn raise / river check on a blank is particularly troubling.

What about the turn raise with a hand that has outs if behind in a 3 handed pot when bet into on a turn card that puts a flush and 4 parts to a straight out there?

That seems like a tough turn raise while the river seems like an easy bet.

ErrantNight · #3 07-14-2004, 01:23 PM

just out of curiousity.... was suzie's vag itching SO badly she had to run out before the final bet? i mean... what precisely is the fear here?

nepenthe · #4 07-14-2004, 01:38 PM

No, actually, I think this line is fine. She's more or less commited to showing this hand down, so she raised the turn hoping that's the last bet she puts in barring a paired river card. CO most likely has a straight and is afraid of the flush. If the board does pair on the river, she gets to put in another bet. If the board does not pair, then she gets to showdown for the same price she would have by calling the turn and the river. Plus, she gets the chance to get the CO to fold on the turn.

All in all I'd say your quest for Vagisil was timely applied. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

nothumb · #5 07-14-2004, 01:49 PM

Nepenthe,

This was more or less the thought running through my frantic, terrified little mind as I tried to will away the itching sensation for a few more seconds.

However, I think you will be bet into by 2 pair on the turn here, or sometimes less, and when I was not three-bet I think I had a clear bet on the river. I think you scare a small flush or a straight here, but you also scare a lot of other hands.

Including J8o, which is what my opponent showed down. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

lostinthought · #6 07-14-2004, 02:14 PM

I like the turn check-raise.

I think the river value bet is marginal.

You will get called (esp. on party poker 2/4) with the straight and any flush (no matter how low). The majority of people folding on the river are hands that you have easily beat (any 1 pair, and MAYBE 2 pair).

It's the party poker fish that always suprise us and call down with anything that make us reconsider value betting.

My read on this player would indicate to me whether the value bet is better than marginal or not. Total fish = bet, Tight solid player = check, otherwise = marginal.

Yeknom58 · #7 07-14-2004, 02:28 PM

How do you muster up the guts to raise the turn but can't seem to bet the river. I guess you charge the single spades the most but you probably get 3-bet by better hands and I'm glad to let the people drawing dead call the turn. You're not increasing your chances of winning the pot because anyone with a big spade is going to call and any bozo willing to call one bet with a small spade will almost always call 2. So I think the turn raise is marginal.

The fact that the CO didn't 3 bet the turn means there is pratically no chance he's going to CR the river. So the river bet is pretty easy. You are going to get called by worse hands and even if you're beat I doubt you get raised. The CO could easily have 2 pair or the As/(T,J,9).