QJs with some draws and whatnot.

jacki · #1 07-14-2004, 01:08 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: JACKI is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, JACKI calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, JACKI .....

Results in white below: 
The rest of the hand auto plays itself. This is the only decision I had questions about, so I'll stop here.
BisonBison sez no results, so no results it is. Until later, at least.

bisonbison · #2 07-14-2004, 01:09 AM

I'd raise and check quite a few turn cards.

BisonBison sez no results, so no results it is.

yarrr.

Jaran · #3 07-14-2004, 01:16 AM

Hey Jacki,
I like raising here with my whole bunches of outs. Unless the turn hits me hard, I hope to get a free card here.

-Jaran

Clarkmeister · #4 07-14-2004, 01:48 AM

Raise preflop.

Raising and calling are both fine on this flop. If the bet had come from your immediate right, you'd be inclined to raise. But with a person between you and the initial flop bettor, you get the chance to string multiple players for 2 bets on the turn if you make top pair or a straight. So that swings it back to being close.

Chris Daddy Cool · #5 07-14-2004, 02:14 AM

Folding the flop is bad. Raising is good. Calling is okay.

I'm with Clarkmeister on this, raise the open limper and try to get it heads up preflop or at least knock out the blinds.

However, I'm guessing you're focusing on the flop play, so...
I would strongly consider raising raising this flop, with overcards + gutshot and the turn will play itself. Check unimproved, bet when you hit something.

kenewbie · #6 07-14-2004, 05:03 AM

Raise and take the free card if you dont fill up with something on the turn.

k

kenewbie · #7 07-14-2004, 05:11 AM

I'm not sure I understand why you would raise this preflop. QJs is a very strong multiway hand, but a very questionable one if two decent players call your raise.

k

jacki · #8 07-14-2004, 10:52 AM

I understand raising the flop to pump the draw, get the free card, etc.
But I don't understand raising preflop with this. Explain please?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: JACKI is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, JACKI calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (5 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, JACKI calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, JACKI calls, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, JACKI bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows Qh Tc (one pair, tens).
BB shows 7d 6h (straight, ten high).
JACKI shows Qc Jc (flush, queen high).
Outcome: JACKI wins 11.50 BB.

dave44 · #9 07-14-2004, 09:21 PM

I've seen this idea recommended many times and do not really understand why you would be more inclined to raise when the better is to your immediate right with a drawing hand. If you had something like TP I can definitely understand wanting to make the other players have to cold call two to try to force them off whatever they may be drawing to. However, when you have a drawing hand with 4 people in the hand, I would think you would want people to stay in the hand to pay you off when you hit your draw.

I would think that you would rather have the better to your immediate left. If you could check, have him bet, and then raise, it will (1) put more money in a pot you have a good shot at winning, (2) still keep everyone in the hand, since they are calling one, then one instead of 2 cold, so that they can possibly pay you off if your hand hits, and (3) still give you a decent shot at a free turn card.

I'm guessing the free turn card is the key to your play here. Is the justification that you want people out to give you a better chance at that free turn card?

Clarkmeister · #10 07-14-2004, 11:07 PM

The key is that my drawing hand is primarily a draw to top pair. This means that we would rather keep it shorthanded to improve the chances that our outs are actually outs. If instead of 6 overcard outs + 4 gutshot straight outs, we had 9 nut flush outs and 3 ace overcard outs, I would agree that pumping the pot is more important than limiting the field. It relates to the strength of the hand you are trying to build.