Kx BB Early

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

'Stars $30 + 3 2-Table SNG

1st level, 5th hand, no reads. Blinds are 10/20, I have my starting stack of 1500 before posting in the BB. I get K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MP1 & button limp, SB folds, I check. 3 see the flop with 70 in the pot.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet 60, only MP1 calls. Heads-up to the turn, 190 in the pot.

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet 100, MP1 raises to 200, I call. (590)

River: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, MP1 bets 955 all-in.

Your move? Comments on all streets appreciated. Results later.

[patrick dicaprio]

usually the small raise on the turn means a hand that can beat top pair. you are getting 4-1 on your call of the reraise so it is tempting but I think there is a good chance you are well beaten here. on the river it is tough. i would tend to fold here but it is easy for me to say that now when not in the heat of battle.

Pat

[Hood]

Here's how I would have played it:

PF: Check, natch.

Flop: I'm currently in two minds with these situations. I generally play rather weak-tight when I get a free play and hit top-pair weak kicker early on. With only 3 players, however, I may have a stab at it with a full pot bet of 70.

Turn: Check/fold. I see no hand that I could beat, and I don't even know if my 5 is an out. He called on the flop and there were no draws around (other than TQ), so I've got to put him on a king.

River: This is tricky. When you called on the turn, what were you looking for? You hit one of your 3 cards that you wanted (is it right to assume the kings aren't outs?), so surely now you've got to call here (preferably bet out instead of checking) - otherwise there wouldn't have been any point in throwing in another 100 on the turn.

[soxfan70]

After he calls the flop bet, I might have gone check-call on the turn, obviously worried about the kicker. When the 5 hits the river, now you're in a tough spot. What K could could he have limped with from MP? You would think he would have raised preflop with AK, KK, or JJ. It's quite possible that he limped with KQ, KJ, or K8. So in my mind there are only a few hands you are behind to, I think i call here and hope to see KQ. This is a tough decision though.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Turn: Check/fold. I see no hand that I could beat

I see an awful lot of people who call the flop with middle pair. I tend to discount a K in the hand of a limper in an unraised pot, especially when my bet from the blind is just called on the flop. Thus, I bet a little more than half the pot on the turn, giving him the chance to fold his unimproved middle pair or decloak and force me out with a big raise. I'm suspicious of the minraise here, but I don't see him as having KJ, thinking that if he called the flop and it's unlikely I have a draw, he'd probably string me along. My plan was to check the river and call a small bet if I don't improve trying to pick off a bluff.

[Jason Strasser]

Kurn, tough hand. I don't know how the play is generally during these 2-table SNGs on stars, I'll tell you how I'd play it in my game.

I'd definitely check the flop. This is one of those spots where I just can not stand getting called on the flop, if I lead. I feel like I get no information from a passive player, who would be content calling me down with his K9s or whatever.

So I'd check. If a solid player bet from any position, I'd fold. If there is a suspicious bet, maybe a button autobet, I'd check-raise. I feel this flop line gives me the most information about what my opponents hold. If my check raised gets cold called by someone who checked the flop, I can almost guarantee a set or a flush draw (weak).

Generally if I get called on the flop if I check raise, I'd end up check/folding the turn if I don't improve. It's just not worth it for me to get involved in these types of hands with TPNK. If the flop checked around, I'd bet slightly more than the pot if an ace didn't come on the turn. This is where I find I get called down a lot by someone with middle pair. Generally, top pair bets the flop. If it checks through, and a non threatening card comes, it is very common that a holder of middle pair (or worse) will assume he/she has the best hand. So again, if it checked around I'd bet slightly more than the pot on the turn, and value bet the river if no scare card came.

Your line is tricky, because I feel like you didn't do as much as you could've to get information from the people acting behind you. From my experience with mini-raises on a non-flush board with only one concievable straight draw that would call the flop bet (QT), screams set or two pair. More likely, it's a set. And while you rivered the two pair, I think that card is a bad card for you. Judging by the typical opponents I play with and their mini-raising standards, this is a fold. In your case, I wouldn't even call the mini-raise, as I would truly feel like I was drawing dead at this point. I would really not be surprised if you were dead on the turn.

Then again, this is all a big guessing game with a mediocre hand. I think it could've been played in a manner where this decision wouldn't have been so hard to make.

[BradleyT]

Call me weak but hands like this are OK if you can get to a showdown cheap - but I'm not going to risk my stack or half a stack on K5o. Especially when it's so early in the tournament, why get married to this cheese?

I put him on 33 or a horribly played AA.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Good thoughts overall on the hand. I usually check in the BB with this type hand if there are more opponents. This time I tried to take it down with a bet, but I like your c/r idea. I think it was a mistake on my part to bet out on the flop and then try to turn my hand into a bluff-catcher.

More likely, it's a set. And while you rivered the two pair, I think that card is a bad card for you. Judging by the typical opponents I play with and their mini-raising standards, this is a fold. In your case, I wouldn't even call the mini-raise, as I would truly feel like I was drawing dead at this point. I would really not be surprised if you were dead on the turn.


Interesting. This makes a lot of sense until he bets all-in on the river. True, if he's going to bet the pot, he might as well bet all-in, but if he has a set, why make it easier for me to fold?

[PrayingMantis]

Hi Kurn,

Others have said enough, so I'd like simply to comment about one thing you say:

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to discount a K in the hand of a limper in an unraised pot, especially when my bet from the blind is just called on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must say I don't agree with you on this one. People are very often limping with all sorts of K's: K9-KQ. I see it all the time. And calling your bet on the flop, is exactly what a KT limper will often do in such a spot, as he's not too sure of his kicker. That's why I prefer, in most cases, checking the flop and see how it developes. I'm very ready to lay down this hand, because I have no intention to play guessing games with TP no-kicker in an unraised pot.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Good point