AKo - turn question

MarkD · #1 07-13-2004, 12:51 AM

Mis-applied turn check or good application?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, BB calls,

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (6 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB
Main Pot: 8 BB, between Hero and SB.

MarkD · #2 07-13-2004, 10:59 AM

I thought at least somebody would have thought this was a bad play and called me out on it.

papawawa · #3 07-13-2004, 11:27 AM

I would've bet the turn and folded to a raise.

butters · #4 07-13-2004, 11:47 AM

I like this play on a less coordinated board. Three broadway cards + a flush draw on the flop = turn bet for me.

MarkD · #5 07-13-2004, 11:51 AM

If I bet the turn and get checkraised I am getting 9-1 to draw to the nut full house when its 10.5-1 againt me hitting it. I would have to call a check raise and would still have a fairly tough fold on the river IMO.

MarkD · #6 07-13-2004, 11:53 AM

I agree in some ways, but I think this play has less value on a less co-ordinated board. For example, if the board was AK5 rainbow and the 5 paired on the turn I am not very afraid of that card helping the PFR and would bet with confidence that my hand was best. If checkraised I would consider 3-betting.

On the actual board in this hand I think it is less clear.

Lottery Larry · #7 07-13-2004, 11:55 AM

I can't tell- depends on your opponent. Did you end up giving him a free card, or was the turn check-raise a strong enough possibility that you saved money?

If you draw to the full house, your implied odds make it pretty reasonable to call a raise if you bet, don't you think?

MarkD · #8 07-13-2004, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell- depends on your opponent. Did you end up giving him a free card, or was the turn check-raise a strong enough possibility that you saved money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know, this was my second orbit. What I do know is that almost everyone will go for a checkraise on this turn if they have ten.

[ QUOTE ]
If you draw to the full house, your implied odds make it pretty reasonable to call a raise if you bet, don't you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I would but that costs me 2 BB's.

I guess what this boils down to is the how much the free card hurts me vs. how much the calling the checkraise hurts me. They are both fraction of a bet situations but I don't know how to evaluate the expectated value for each situation.

The way I see it is that if I check the turn I think I will often collect 1 BB on the river when I am ahead anyways, but when I am behind checking the turn saves me money as I would likley invest 2BB (on the turn or 1 on the turn and 1 on the river). Also, any hand that is drawing on the turn is going to see the river so checking isn't a "mathematical catastrophe" (correct me if I'm wrong).

Sigh, I still don't know how I feel about this line.

lil' · #9 07-13-2004, 01:11 PM

I don't see any reason to check the turn. You have top two, and I don't really think the 10 changes much, unless your opponent likes to attack with third pair on the flop against a pre-flop raiser with an ace and king showing.

He could be raising that flop with a lot of things that you are still ahead of.

MoreWineII · #10 07-13-2004, 01:19 PM

Bet the turn.