Those darn queens

skaboomizzy · #1 07-05-2004, 07:27 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (5 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB (t825)
BB (t4225)
Hero (t4190)
MP (t3270)
Button (t990)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t1200, MP raises to t3245, Button calls t965 (All-In), SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls t2045.

Flop: (t7530) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t7530) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t7530) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t7530
Main Pot: t3020 (t3020), between Hero, MP and Button. > Pot won by Button (t3020).
Pot 2: t4510 (t4510), between Hero and MP. > Pot won by MP (t4510).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Qc Qs (two pair, queens and jacks).
MP shows Ac Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
Button shows Kd Kc (full house, kings full of jacks).
Outcome: MP wins t4510. Button wins t3020. 

==============================================

Any suggestions on how I botched this? I hate to start getting gun-shy with Q-Q late in an SNG.

durron597 · #2 07-05-2004, 08:04 PM

I like raising to 2.5xBB if the blinds are this big. After two allins, with only 1000 in the middle you can still fold. Though, QQ is only behind to KK and AA, so I would only fold my thousand here if I felt that MP was tight enough that he would only come over the top with those (which he didn't have in this case). Since you were ahead of MP preflop, you got your money in with the best of it (because you still make chips if you beat MP but not the button), so I think this is an OK call.

Girazze · #3 07-05-2004, 08:22 PM

Sorry, I just don't think QQ is strong enough to call two all-ins. Rename your raise "donation" and fold. Plenty of argument for and against with QQ but then we always argue about QQ! Way too often you are going to see either A or K come up and derail your ladies.

woodguy · #4 07-05-2004, 08:58 PM

MP is an idiot, I hope he's on your buddy list.
I probably woulda gone broke here too.

regards,
woodguy

Toro · #5 07-05-2004, 09:34 PM

I used to agree with this thinking but ive seen a lot of all-ins with 3's, 5's, A9o, shiit like that, so I've been a lot less conservative lately.

pzhon · #6 07-05-2004, 11:16 PM

UTG at a 5-handed table is like MP3 at a full table. QQ is much more of a monster with 4 players left to act after you than with 9. It's clearly right to raise, and after you are reraised it was an easy call.

Calling looks bad given that the button had KK, so you didn't have the best hand preflop, but calling was right by a lot even if you knew what cards they had. Chip values are nonlinear, but twodimes says you win 18.3% of the main pot of 3020, and 70.9% of the side pot of 4510, for a total of 3750. That's more than the 3270 you put in. Folding to the reraise would cost 1680 chips, on average. It's rarely right to cough up that many chips.

skaboomizzy · #7 07-06-2004, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG at a 5-handed table is like MP3 at a full table. QQ is much more of a monster with 4 players left to act after you than with 9. It's clearly right to raise, and after you are reraised it was an easy call.

Calling looks bad given that the button had KK, so you didn't have the best hand preflop, but calling was right by a lot even if you knew what cards they had. Chip values are nonlinear, but twodimes says you win 18.3% of the main pot of 3020, and 70.9% of the side pot of 4510, for a total of 3750. That's more than the 3270 you put in. Folding to the reraise would cost 1680 chips, on average. It's rarely right to cough up that many chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

God bless you, kind sir. At this point I'm not really calling two all-ins, since I've already put the button all-in with my initial raise.

Anyway, after replaying this hand in my mind, I decided that I can't be living in fear of A-A or K-K everytime I open-raise.

It basically comes down to an A-J suckout over my Q-Q, which is even MORE painful given that that the short-stacked button had the K-K thus drastically reducing MP's odds of holding a higher pocket pair than my Qs.

Once I get my mind more attuned to this kind of thing, I'm sure I'll play better in these and MTTs.