A situation I'm unsure about PP $30

[Cornbread Maxwell]

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OK the first part is correct, you should fold preflop. Secondly, if you bet the turn you cannot fold to a raise IMO. He's not always going to have 54o every time he raises on the turn. Plus if you bet 200 and fold to a raise you're basically crippling yourself when the guy could easily be semi bluffing with a flush draw.

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You think that at the $30 level, a guy who limped UTG, called a minimum raise, minbet the flop and called a huge raise is going to CR *another* huge raise all in with a flush draw?

Please move up to the $50 level and play me.

BTW, he's much more likely to have 54 soooooted than 54o and he may very well only have a flush draw - but he's not CR'ing all in with it. When I get CR'd by a fishy calling station on this board, he sure as hell can beat TPTK.

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Not that it matters a ton, but I play $200 sit and go's regularly, and I can confidently say that the vast majority of $30 players at Party Poker are atrocious nearly without exception.

The problem with having 800 in chips is that you can't play a big hand without getting pot commmitted easily. After putting in almost 200 chips total with his A8 suited preflop and on the flop, he's getting dangerously close to becoming pot committed (and probably has the best hand, based on how his opponent played so far).

If I were in this player's situation, I'd assume it is highly likely my opponent is on a draw rather than a set or overpair on the flop, and bet big unless the turn is a scare card (flush card perhaps).

Yes, the turn card COULD give his opponent a straight, but this isn't Pot Limit Omaha where your opponent usually is drawing for the nuts, this is low limit NL hold em where your opponent could easily be holding on to a flush draw, a low pocket pair, or even overcards (!).

If you are holding A8d and play the hand aggressively on the flop, you MUST continue to be aggressive when a card like this falls on the turn, and be willing to get all of your chips in once you bet the turn. You have to understand how disgusting it is to put in a $150 bet on the flop and a $250 bet on the turn, then fold to a re-raise. You lose half your stack and your opponent might not even have you beat every time.

Anyways, I'd never be in this hand to begin with because I almost never call raises with A8 suited in sit and go's, but in a $30 NL sit and go versus the caliber of players I normally see in them, it would be very hard for me to release top pair on the turn in his situation.

Hope to see you in the $200's soon, adanthar!

[tigerite]

You're not wrong about the $30s. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this guy had a flush draw. The fishy play is terrible. I play them regularly at the moment so I'm used to it, heh..

[adanthar]

Oh, yeah, there's no question you must bet the turn. There's also no question you're gonna be really disgusted if you have to fold there (again, why I don't play this hand; if the turn is a K and you get checkraised, well...)

But so far, you're up against a pure calling station who's done nothing except call on a draw heavy board. He *might* be a little bit better and have a set or stupidly slowplayed aces (which would also checkraise), but it takes a very special breed of idiot to call off half his stack on a flopped draw during L1 and then checkraise all in on the turn for the other half. There's a 99.9% chance his minbet is a draw or weak TP (the other .1% is a set) and roughly a 95% chance he's the far less special brand of idiot who CR's the nuts.

The difference could very well be the limits we play. The 200's have bad players, but, just like Party 15/30, they're a different, LAGgy breed of bad from 3/6 or $30. At the $50 and $30 level, if you get CR'd on the turn (and it's always a minimum raise for some reason) you can fold this hand without a second thought.

IMO, of course, but given the way this guy has played so far I think my read is good.

I'll see you at the $200's in a thousand or so multitabled 50's and 100's [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Cornbread Maxwell]

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Oh, yeah, there's no question you must bet the turn. There's also no question you're gonna be really disgusted if you have to fold there (again, why I don't play this hand; if the turn is a K and you get checkraised, well...)

But so far, you're up against a pure calling station who's done nothing except call on a draw heavy board. He *might* be a little bit better and have a set or stupidly slowplayed aces (which would also checkraise), but it takes a very special breed of idiot to call off half his stack on a flopped draw during L1 and then checkraise all in on the turn for the other half. There's a 99.9% chance his minbet is a draw or weak TP (the other .1% is a set) and roughly a 95% chance he's the far less special brand of idiot who CR's the nuts.

The difference could very well be the limits we play. The 200's have bad players, but, just like Party 15/30, they're a different, LAGgy breed of bad from 3/6 or $30. At the $50 and $30 level, if you get CR'd on the turn (and it's always a minimum raise for some reason) you can fold this hand without a second thought.

IMO, of course, but given the way this guy has played so far I think my read is good.

I'll see you at the $200's in a thousand or so multitabled 50's and 100's [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I agree with the analysis. Again, it comes down to how many chips you start with. Anyone who plays Party sit and go's well, especially the ones where you start out with 800 chips, understands that you have to be VERY careful about getting pot committed early on with a marginal hand.

In a $50 S&G and up, where you start out with 1000 chips, it would be far easier to get away from this hand, given that you have more chips, and are against smarter players, who won't do crazy things [as frequently] with top pair weak kicker, or a flush draw, or even a bluff.

Again, the way this hand was played is DISGUSTING, as we both can agree on, simply due to our super tight S&G styles at Party, but if I had played it that way on the flop and turn, I wouldn't be able to get away from it to a raise in a $30 S&G, even though I might feel I was statistically probable to be an underdog after I called the raise.

Good luck and I hope you're getting rakeback on those $50 and $100 S&G's!

[SmileyEH]

Thanks for all the replies. He folded to a 2/3rd pot bet.

-SmileyEH