My first posted hand.

[kt421]

Thanks for all the comments. In hand one, I realize that the initial call was a bit loose. I'm still struggling to tighten my PF game (the good news is that it is mostly working). After that, I essentially discounted the maniac's reraise because his pattern was to raise/re-raise PF with all hands. The button worried me, but once I had 2sb in and that large a potential pot, I had to see the flop. (Admittedly, I was repeating "queen, queen, jack" as the cards flipped).

What of my calling the button re-raise, BB 3-bet on the flop? No one has mentioned this call, but in hindsight I'm guessing I'm behind at least one hand, with only the jacks and queens as outs (and with jacks being questionable outs because of the risk that someone, likely the button, holding QQ).

For the curious, button turned over 66 for the sixes over queens. Maniac turns over Qx for the set of Queens (note that he only made that set on the river!).

On hand two, I tend to agree with the poster who said I played it horribly start to finish. Though given the table, the pf cap may not have been unduly horrible. Someone asked about my river bet - I saw checking as conceding the pot (figuring I was behind someone). But both guys in the pot had shown the ability to fold (yes, even the maniac, he often folded to aggression on the later streets, despite his PF/Flop play). Turns out only the maniac called me, and he took the pot with his pair of fives.

Thanks again for the input.

Oh, someone mentioned having a lot to learn if hand one was my best hand. I certainly do have a lot to learn, but I meant best in the sense of biggest pot, not most-well-played. Likely part of learning will be to internalize that "best" in poker shouldn't be results-oriented.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
1. The pot before the flop is 28.5 sb.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are talking about hand 2, you are looking at hand 1.

[27offsooot]

"Hand number 1 is badly misplayed.

1. Fold preflop. Calling the cap is not happy, but whatever, in for a penny in for a pound at that point.

2. Do not raise on the flop. Wait until the turn to raise. You have the aggressor to your right, and two players to your left you can force out. Your flop raise just handcuffs all draws to the pot, and even with top two, your hand is vulnerable to the board pairing 6s or the turn card, an ace or king falling (giving trips), etc. Protect your hand.

3. turn played fine

4. river fine since you hold the mortal nuts. I presume BB turns over JJ? "

Derek was talking about hand one, bringing up pt 2 on hand one. I believe you are mistaken. Does that quote even make sense for hand two?
Note: This is the problem with multiple hands per thread.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe you are mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya, you responded to me. And in the post just above yours is one of my posts talking about hand 2. I clicked on the my name to see what you were responding to. You were right, my bad.

[27offsooot]

No worries, i just wish that people would stick to one post/ thread. That James tutoring post with 5 or 6 hands last week was so difficult to read yet had great content.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]

Why is calling here a good thing? You have 6 outs that may or may not be clean which translates to 3 outs. He is basically getting 12:1 pot odds on a 14:1 draw. On the turn he is getting 7.5:1 pot odds on a 14:1.

Why is everyone calling the flop and turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

He could easily be ahead of the LAG. The BB muddles things up, but you could be ahead and I'm not as concerned about my outs as you are, especially if you think the BB will fold an unimproved A on the river.

He's basically committing himself to see the river by putting in the 4th bet preflop (assuming the action doesn't clearly indicate otherwise.) This is one of the reasons I don't like the cap even against an uber LAG.

[MattC]

my thoughts:
hand 1
preflop: like most think here, fold preflop when its capped. although at a passive table i think calling here after 3 limpers is arguably okay.

flop: i think call the 3 bet instead of capping. a person who raised after its been raised 2x to him is probably ahead of 2 pair here.

turn: raise a blank, be cautious with some scare cards. you could still be ahead and if you are you want bets in the pot for the drawers that are potentially out there. if not the pot is so big at this point if your still being reraised you can still try to draw to your boat.

river: fine.

hand 2:

preflop: why raise. your hand is a drawing hand, let others play with you. but most likely fold here, there are no callers so you might not be getting your odds for your draw and your easily dominated if you get raised from someone behind you.

flop: id prob fold it, even the ace drawing for a straight or outside flush is still better then your hand.

turn: fold or raise is the better option i see here. raise if you think you can buy the pot, otherwise fold your outs could be dirty and your probably behind. maniac could have anything and he could know that its very possible your just on overcards, in fact he probably doesnt even care.

river: you shouldnt be even playing this hand anymore at this stage in the hand. either you bought it or you folded.

i think your problem in hand 2 is your trying to play your opponent too much with the other player in the hand. yeh your hand looks pretty and all but your not playing solid, but rather just as recklessly as him. king high kinda crappy hand.

[HajiShirazu]

I probably would have just folded preflop in hand 1. No sense doodling around with a crappy offsuit hand in what is going to be a large multiway pot. If I call the first bet, then get sucked into the second, I probably end up calling the last two and being worried that the button is a smart player with a real hand, but expecting flopping a Q or J to be good some of the time.
I don't think there's anything wrong with hand 2. I would cap every time, because KJs is pretty good against one random hand and one guy who probably would have capped if he had a real hand. On the turn it's thin, but you have position on the BB so you can avoid losing extra money if you catch one of your outs and it's bad, and you might have SB or both of them beat. If SB bets and BB folds, I think it's ugly, but you have to call with king high there because it's good at least some of the time against a 77% raiser. I don't know about the bluff on the river. I guess you don't have to fold a better hand too often for it to be right.