Called down with two-pair

[Harv72b]

I tend to agree...call the flop bet, then pop your raise on the turn when it's more expensive.

As far as being scared of UTG's initial bet, if he really is a rational (I read this as "good") player, he would have raised preflop with AK, AA, or KK. That takes care of 3 of the 5 possible hands that are ahead of you right now.

Regarding your more recent questions:

The main risk you faced was not allowing a hand like QJ to stick around for cheap. The main risk you faced was allowing any A to stick around for cheap and outdraw you by pairing their kicker or by a runner-runner board pairing coming down to counterfeit your 2 pair (not to mention another A coming). Since you didn't mention how many players saw the flop initially I can't figure the exact pot odds, but it's highly unlikely that anyone on QJ had odds to call even one bet after the blank turn (he's only drawing to 4 outs at that point, meaning the pot would have to be at least 11.5 BBs to justify a call). On the other hand, aside from already having top pair & seeing no aggression to suggest that isn't good, anyone with an A who is still behind you now has 8 outs to beat you (maybe more than that if the turn 3 made 2-suited on the board).

Based on the preflop betting, I think you're ahead on the flop at least 75% of the time...probably far higher than that. As I said, assuming nobody limped with AK, AA, or KK, there are only 2 possible holdings that beat you.

How often you're still good on the river depends largely on how you play the hand. By raising the turn (if not the flop), you greatly increase the chances that you will be.

[River2Pair]

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The main risk you faced was allowing any A to stick around for cheap and outdraw you by pairing their kicker or by a runner-runner board pairing coming down to counterfeit your 2 pair (not to mention another A coming).

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The bettor isn't folding before the river. Any caller who has an ace probably isn't going to call the first bet, but fold for a second one. Some things you don't really have a whole lot of control over.

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Since you didn't mention how many players saw the flop initially I can't figure the exact pot odds,

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I don't remember the exact details, I just tried to give the basic gist of what happened.

If I had a less vulnerable hand, like a set, or if this pot were three players to the flop, that would be my plan-- call the flop and raise the turn. I guess I got a little too gunshy there.

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This sucks.


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I couldn't have said it better myself.

That's as passive as it gets man. You don't want to be that kind of player at the table. Get pushing your edges. Hands like these make you lots of money in the long run!

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I believe Bobby Baldwin, in Super System said that there is no hand that has lost him more money than bottom two pair.

Of course he is referring to much tougher games.

So am I wrong to not see my hand as a monster here?

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Avoid any and all limit advice in Super Systems.

You don't need a monster to raise on the flop. You need the best hand enough times based on what the pot is laying you.

This is a clear flop raise.

[River2Pair]

UTG tabled A9o and MHIG, and I got some strange looks from the rest of the table. I started getting checked to more often and I was betting often, and picking up many small pots. May have just been coincidence though, its hard to tell if any of these people are paying attention.