Perfect free showdown raise...

[Jeff W]

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I actually thought after the hand that you would have folded the river. But firing the last bullet is not profitable in that spot long term.

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A couple things:

1. My kicker did play a role here. 87o is the weakest 8xo hand I'm playing here. If I had K8, Q8 I definitely call a blank river.

2. My plan was to fold this time on the river, but you can't rely on me to play consistently and I'm very often showing down here.

No way a river bluff is profitable.

[TStoneMBD]

i dont like the free showdown raise here. you cant get an 8 to fold so why give a weaker hand a chance to save a bet?

[sthief09]

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Do you think I should have planned to check-call river unimproved if no scare card hits?

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah I'd probably be seeing a showdown with that hand since all you had on him probably was numbers

I have been waiting for the turn to check-raise in those spots. maybe I'm using it too liberally though.

[sthief09]

just about all the time

[krishanleong]

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i dont like the free showdown raise here. you cant get an 8 to fold so why give a weaker hand a chance to save a bet?

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I thought I could get an 8 to fold sometimes. I also think I can get a pp to fold sometimes. This play wouldn't be very good if I didn't think I could fold a better hand.

Jeff said he was planning on folding the river. It's not that big a step to fold to the turn raise. Also if it hadn't been posted on the board, it might have had metagame benefits. (but probably not)

Krishan

[sthief09]

8 is basically top pair. no one folds anything ever, let alone "top pair"

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
8 is basically top pair. no one folds anything ever, let alone "top pair"

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This is not noone. The play has several things going for it.

1 It's read based.
2 I'm never getting 3-bet by a worse hand. Ever.
3 The top card paired the turn and it's concievable that I could have the top card.
4 There are DEFINITELY hands better than mine that he will fold more often than I'll get 3-bet by a worse hand. (66, 77)
5 He could be on a draw and check fold the river.

Krishan

[helpmeout]

Your turn play is fine although I'd likely find a fold on the flop here since its unlikely he has a pair of 4s.

I dont know what the argument about draws is I mean I'd 100% want a draw to fold this turn he could have 14 outs here. Your pair of 5s will get beat when he misses and catches a pair.

[TStoneMBD]

if youre going to argue that fundamentals dont play a role in this hand because you have a read, then why post it? if you have a read that he will fold an 8 here sometimes somehow then its a good play depending on that frequency.

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2 I'm never getting 3-bet by a worse hand. Ever.

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thats impressive that you have jeffw's game down to such a perfect science.

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5 He could be on a draw and check fold the river.

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yes he could also have 9T and bet the river when a heart comes, among other things.

[krishanleong]

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if youre going to argue that fundamentals dont play a role in this hand because you have a read, then why post it?

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I don't understand.

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if you have a read that he will fold an 8 here sometimes somehow then its a good play depending on that frequency.

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Most good players will lay down some hands to this raise. Jeff is a very very good 2+2er. There are worse against whom this play is stronger.

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2 I'm never getting 3-bet by a worse hand. Ever.



thats impressive that you have jeffw's game down to such a perfect science.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand. I'm not playing this hand against Jeff. I'm playing this hand against a generic TAG.

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yes he could also have 9T and bet the river when a heart comes, among other things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I have more equity than he does.

Krishan