Baseball musical chairs? Benitez to Mariners for Nelson. - Page 2

Josh W · #11 08-07-2003, 05:00 AM

Bah.

Garcia is on-again, off-again. He's got great stuff, but a weak mindset. It's easier to get a mindset right than it is to take a mediocre pitcher and make him great.

If the M's were playing the WhiteSox tomorrow, would I want him pitching? No, I'd take any of the other 4 starters right now. But 22 months from now, I'll bet he's better than any M's pitcher ever was/is. He's got great stuff. Only a fool would give up on him.

There's a reason why Rick Ankiel still gets headlines. And Garcia is nowhere near that messed up. Plus, he has some credentials.

Josh

Sooga · #12 08-07-2003, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bah.

Garcia is on-again, off-again. He's got great stuff, but a weak mindset. It's easier to get a mindset right than it is to take a mediocre pitcher and make him great.

If the M's were playing the WhiteSox tomorrow, would I want him pitching? No, I'd take any of the other 4 starters right now. But 22 months from now, I'll bet he's better than any M's pitcher ever was/is. He's got great stuff. Only a fool would give up on him.

There's a reason why Rick Ankiel still gets headlines. And Garcia is nowhere near that messed up. Plus, he has some credentials.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, then consider me a fool. Garcia's on the wrong side of 27, and he should by all accounts be entering the upswing of his career, when he seems to be doing the opposite. Sure, you can spit names like Johnson, Schilling, and Moyer (pitchers who learned how to pitch later) all day long, but every one of those, there are a hundred Darren Dreiforts who have amazing stuff but for one reason or another have never put it together. Even Johnson and Schilling (before they were great) were still considered 'good' pitchers, ERA's always in the 3's, and good strikeout numbers.

That aside, Johnson and Schilling have always had overpowering stuff. Garcia doesn't. He doesn't have any pitch that leaves you speechless. Garcia's just been getting worse since 2001, although he will probably do better next year (as you can't do much worse than he's doing this year). As for the ChiSox, I'll take Buerhle 22 months from now over Garcia any day of the week.

Sooga · #13 08-07-2003, 06:03 AM

Oops, i misread your post. What you originally said is even worse. I thought you were comparing Freddy to the ChiSox pitchers, when you were actually comparing him to any past or present M's pitcher. You're joking, right? Randy Johnson? Jamie Moyer? Joel Pineiro? You think Freddy will be as effective as any of these guys? You gotta lay off the crackpipe.

Zeno · #14 08-07-2003, 12:05 PM

All good points. I don't pay any attention to all the yapping by players but I'm sure others do in the respective organizations. I especially like your point about the closers and that Hasegawa should stay put.

-Zeno

Zeno · #15 08-07-2003, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The Mariners winning 116 games during the 2001 regular season and then subsequently losing 4-1 to the Yankees in the postseason was a pretty memorable choke job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for reminding me. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

-Zeno

andyfox · #16 08-07-2003, 12:14 PM

Nelson's a big of a bigmouth--he also had some negative things to say about Joe Torre a couple of years ago when Torre left him off the all-star team.

Zeno · #17 08-07-2003, 12:28 PM

Pitching line up for Mariners/Yankees Series, starts Friday:

Franklin(8-9) - Weaver(6-8)

Meche(12-7) - Pettitte(13-6)

Moyer(15-5) - Clemens(11-7)

All good match ups and if we toss Benitez/Nelson in the mix and have them coming in the game ~ 8th inning or so, or against some hitters in key situations late in the game - the makings of some great baseball and suspense. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Mariners take 2 out of 3. I would say 3 out of 3 but I can't be that optimistic. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
I wonder what the Vegas boys have for a line on these games?

-Zeno

ripdog · #18 08-07-2003, 12:41 PM

I was thinking the inverse here. I hope I'm wrong, but I think that the M's continue to lose close games for the rest of the year, come in second to Oakland, and maybe, if their lucky, get into the playoffs as the wild card. That is a shame considering what Moyer, Pinero, Meche, and Franklin have done this year. I hope Moyer gets the Cy Young. He's a class act all the way and when he does throw at you, you've got plenty of time to get out of the way. I'm amazed at what he does.

andyfox · #19 08-07-2003, 12:49 PM

I would think Halliday has the inside track on the Cy Young award. But each pitcher will have about 10 more starts, so we'll see. Great battle of two 40-year olds on Sunday with vastly different approaches to pitching.

ripdog · #20 08-07-2003, 01:00 PM

I don't think he's done. He's a head case, for sure, but he's got a 95 plus fastball and a wicked curveball to go along with it. One more effective pitch and he could dominate. He needs to grow up and pitch smart. The fork is a tad premature, I think. Take a look at Moyer's numbers before and after his current stint with the M's. Would you have forked him too? 120-54 over 8 years. 59-75 over the prior 9 years. Garcia needs to learn how to pitch. When he does, he'll be a Clemens type. I'd keep him, no question.