Conservative talk radio in hysteria over Fahrenheit 9/11

[daryn]

hey i was reading at 3. where is my special treatment??? back then books were books! who can read any of the crap put out today?



joker, you sound like an idiot. you must realize that you come off just as bad as the ultra right wing idiots, you're just on the other side of things. instead of throwing buzz phrases around try using facts, they have more influence.

[elwoodblues]

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instead of throwing buzz phrases around try using facts, they have more influence

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Unfortunately, this probably isn't true.

Quick Poll: Did Al Gore say that he invented the internet?

[SlyR]

I listen to both conservative and liberal talk radio on a daily basis, and I can't agree with you. What I hear from conservative pundits is not a "panic," as you put it, but rather an aloofness - a smug denial that F911 will have any impact on the election. And I agree; Moore's film is only going to appeal to those who would already agree with him.

As for your "Bush Brothers stealing Florida" comment:
What did Jeb have to do with 2000's election process?

Finally, regarding your comment expressing fear of bias on Fox News:
I strongly advise that you read Bias, by Bernard Goldberg (a liberal).

[jokerswild]

Ok, since you are so open minded and well informed, let's discuss the film. Does Moore lie when he indicates that the Bush's have major economic ties to Saudi Arabia? No, it is not a lie. Is it a lie that Richard Clarke has "testified" that Bush had little interest in Osama, but immediately cast his anger towrds Saddam? No, it is not a lie. Is it a lie that Halliburton is making millions upon millions in a no bid contract? No, it is not a lie. Is it a lie that Bush made close to a million dollars by selling his stock in Harkin when he had been advised by legal counsel not to sell? No, it is not a lie. Is it a lie that the Supreme Court decided the election, and that a recount of every county in Florida had Gore winning? No, it is not a lie. Is it a lie that thousands of African-American voters were disenfranchised by the State of Florida and that Florida failed to notify them before election day? No, it is not a lie. The list goes on and on.

I dare you to point out even one lie in the film.
Of course to do so, you would have to go see it.

It's so much easier for fascists to listen to Goebbels impressionists like Limbaugh. Fascists enjoy believing the fairy tales of party supremacy. It makes their fragile egos feel better than everybody else.

[SlyR]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it a lie that Richard Clarke has "testified" that Bush had little interest in Osama, but immediately cast his anger towrds Saddam? No, it is not a lie.

[/ QUOTE ]Perhaps it is not a lie that Clarke testified as such, but the accuracy of his testimony is another matter.[ QUOTE ]
Is it a lie that the Supreme Court decided the election,

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, and rightfully so, as a matter of Federal election law.[ QUOTE ]
...and that a recount of every county in Florida had Gore winning? No, it is not a lie.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, that one probably is a lie. If that were the case, then why didn't the official recounts result in a Gore win?[ QUOTE ]
Is it a lie that thousands of African-American voters were disenfranchised by the State of Florida and that Florida failed to notify them before election day? No, it is not a lie.

[/ QUOTE ] That's an assertion that's been made over and over with no factual support. I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind that one.[ QUOTE ]
Of course to do so, you would have to go see it.

[/ QUOTE ]You accuse those who would disagree with the points made in the film of being uninformed because they haven't seen it. But I'm willing to bet that you haven't taken the effort to check the integrity of Moore's assertions yourself.

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Fascists enjoy believing the fairy tales of party supremacy. It makes their fragile egos feel better than everybody else.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you as quick to rally against fairy tales of Democratic Party supremacy?
Likewise, are you just as quick to apply the "fascist" label to institutions such as Public Education and the Media, who exert a fascist-like control over American culture?

[jokerswild]

Sadly, you are wrong.
The US Supreme Court ordered that the Florida Supreme Court decision be remanded. This vacated the Florda decision, and would have resulted in every county in Florida recounting. When this was done past the arbitrary date set by the US Supreme Court to report the results,(precedent had been set by the Kennedy-Nixon election in which results for the electoral college were not finalized until the month of January)Gore won. As it stood, Bush won by default. The real argument that informed Republicans make is that Gore was suing for the recount of only four counties. When the recount was done in only those four counties, Bush won. Thus, informed Republicans blame the Gore team for failing to sue to have all counties recounted. Neverhteless, if the US Suporeme Court had permitted the recount to continue into the first week in January in all counties, Gore would have won and been sworn in on January 20. Of course this assumes that the votes would have been counted by as disinterested parties as those that counted after the election. More than likely, vote tallies would have been held back in key counties for both sides, and a steal of some kind would have transpired. This is common. Read Caro's works on Lyndon Johnson for prime stealing tactics.

Now, I don't argue that the Kennedys may not have stolen the election in 1960. It is more than likely that they did.

Moore was actually much more careful than I expected him to be. He could have been much harsher. Generally, he has Bush cook his own goose. Videos of contradictory statements made by Bush, and Bush administration officials, make up the majority of the film.

The 9-11 commission states that the Bin Laden family was permitted to leave the country on 9-13-01. This apparently is the earliest that they could have been allowed to leave the country. They were permitted, however, to fly within the USA borders to expedite their departure. Other Americans were not permitted to fly within the USA at this time. Moore makes the case that these people should have been questioned. The FBI states that they did. How thorough an investigation can be conducted in 2 days?

Just because right wing fascists have no sense of duty to inform themselves of facts does not mean that others follow the same inane reasoning. Actually, fascists believe that if you lie to the people often enough that the lie becomes the truth. This accounts for Limbaugh and Drudge, and other local jackboots.

Frankly, I have been having fun enraging people that think Bush uber alles is justified. Most of these folks have benefitted from the Bush tax cuts, and have no qualms about the destruction of Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, police and fire protection, and veterans benefits that the budget busting implies. Most would favor ending Social Security immediately, and loook the other way as millions of senior citizens died, or wandered US cities homeless. They truly remind me of the German industrialists (heavily financed by Prescott Bush) who played Mozart while the ovens burned.

[natedogg]

jw: Most would favor ending Social Security immediately, and loook the other way as millions of senior citizens died, or wandered US cities homeless

Careful, you're starting to sound like a ranter instead of a thinker.

Abolishing Social Security does not require that we also let the poor starve to death. This is a false dichotomy presented by those who want to scare people into supporting
a system they frankly don't understand.

I am shamelessly in favor of what you call "the destruction of Social Security". You say that as if that would be a bad thing! I pray for that day and I'm not even religious. Everyone with two brain cells to rub together who understands even the basics of our Social Security knows it is a broken system, doomed from the start (notwithstanding the moral ramifications of a paternalistic nanny state forcing you to save for retirement because they know what's best for you - a topic for another thread).

Pop quiz: Do the legislators who force you into Social Security have to participate in it themselves?

I would recommend you educate yourself about what you so fervently defend. Social Security may well be the REASON many elderly end up on the streets in our future.

natedogg

[jokerswild]

Ok, Heil Bush! Invade Iran! Bring back the draft! Nuke North Korea! End Medicaid and kick the nursing home patients out! Have the majority of seniors who can work, work until the day they die! If they can't work, let them starve on the streets! When the middle is unable to pay for the 10 trillion projected deficit at the end of a Bush second term. call the middle terrorists and communists! Throw them in the privately funded prisons and they will work for free!

Heil Bush! You've convinced me NATEDOGG! (not)

[SlyR]

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Frankly, I have been having fun enraging people that think Bush uber alles is justified.

[/ QUOTE ]

A typical liberal tactic: Satisfy your own rage by spreading it. Never mind intelligent, respectful discourse.

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Most of these folks have benefitted from the Bush tax cuts,

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...and you haven't? The only people who didn't receive tax cuts under Bush's plan are those who paid no taxes.

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and have no qualms about the destruction of Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, police and fire protection, and veterans benefits that the budget busting implies.

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Police and Fire protection: Didn't the number of policemen on the streets increase since 9/11? Likewise with Firemen?

Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare: How have these programs suffered? I don't see a significant increase in illness and poverty among the elderly, do you? At least not as the result of any recent action, or beyond what you would expect from natural population growth. There may be a need to fix the programs, but at the end of the day you can still walk into an emergency room anywhere in the US and expect to be treated, even if you do not have the means to pay. There are few other countries which offer this benefit. Even the UK, which liberals so heavily tout as Health Care-savvy, can't promise emergency care to everyone.

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Most would favor ending Social Security immediately, and look the other way as millions of senior citizens died, or wandered US cities homeless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's pure slander. How can you be serious when accusing anyone, Republican, Democrat, or otherwise, of condoning poverty and illness? And where do you get millions from? Nationalhomeless.org reports that 3.5 million Americans "are likely to experience homelessness within a given year." This includes people who are in transition between homes. The same source admits that "we are estimating on the high end of the study's numbers." Of these homeless, discount those who first became homeless since the beginning of the Bush years, then take into account fraudulent data (e.g., people living with relatives) and those who are homeless by personal choice (e.g., junkies and vagrants). Millions? Solely as a result of some enigmatic Conservative policy which creates homelessness? Can you point to any specific legislation which has brought about the current condition, or to be more relevant, which has brought about an increase in the condition since January 20, 2001?

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They truly remind me of the German industrialists (heavily financed by Prescott Bush) who played Mozart while the ovens burned.

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Another beloved liberal tactic: Compare your enemy to the Nazis, thus shutting down the debate completely. After all, who can sympathize with Nazis?

[jokerswild]

In answer to several of your fallacious statements:
federally mandated increases regarding state participation has created budget crises in at least 14 states that are flat broke. Police and fire proection has decreased under Bush.

End Social Security, SSDI, and SSI immediately, and you can add 10 million to the homeless population within 30 days.

Who can sympathize with the Nazis? Why Prescott Bush. He financed the Thiessen family interests and had assets confiscated by the US government in 1943 for trading with the enemy.

Just as Fox News is not "fair and balanced" , conservative talk radio is not civil nor rational. Anyone that disagress with Limbaugh, Drudge, or a host of their impersonators is classified as a terrorist sympathizer or hater of America.

I didn't get a tax cut as a single middle income earner. I paid more federal tax in '04 than '03.

You sadly are another that justifies war for economic profiteering, while thousands die. Ask Jesus to forgive you and you can tell yourself that it is all ok.