15-30 hand #106 - ATo in BB

[adios]

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Terrible move to fold this in the BB with 4 people already in for 2 bets, and dead money in the pot also. Way too tight.

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ATo doesn't play well in a multi-handed pot usually but your getting excellent odds on your initial pre-flop call. It is written in HFAP that a good guideline is to call raises in this situation with hands that you'd normally cold call a raise with in late position. I believe HFAP also states that it's fine to call with hands that can turn into big hands after the flop. Of course a single Ace can make the nut flush sometimes. There was a thread many moons ago where I posted about a hand where there were something like 8 players in for a raise pre-flop and whether a call by a Q5o from the BB was a good call. Lively debate on that one including Ray, Abdul, Mason, and Dave. I'd normally chuck this hand pre-flop but you make a good counter arguement IMO.

[Michael Davis]

Barron,

I posted this a long time ago and got few responses, but it perplexes the hell out of me.

I am quoting from TPFAP, page 182. You have ATo on the BB and UTG raises. Sklansky says you should "absolutely not" call, but continues:

"This is a simple example where the right play is clearly different in a tournament than in a side game."

I posted then that I always fold ATo and AJo here. But, Sklansky is arguing here that ATo is worth a call against an UTG raiser. Is it the presence of all others in the pot that make you fold ATo, or is it something you would do regardless?

-Michael

[Michael Davis]

Please read my response to Dcifr's post earlier in the thread.

-Michael

[Ulysses]

Gracias! Please note that El Diablo did not provide an opinion wrt the optimal play in this hand. His post was merely to poke fun at TSP, not to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of TSP's suggested line. FWIW, there are numerous online game conditions where El Diablo would call in that spot pre-flop and other situations where he would muck. El Diablo's post-flop line would also be a function of the players in the game. However, El Diablo did not find this hand interesting enough to have a discussion about, whereas poking fun at TSP's ego seemed plenty entertaining. Olé!!!

[adios]

One big difference is the multi-way aspect of this particular hand and all the cold calls of the raise by UTG.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
El Diablo reminds the forum that Turning Stone Pro can beat any 20/40 in the country and is one of only two players here currently beating the Party 15/30. Well, except for when he has losing streaks at Party, then Party is rigged.

El Diablo also reminds TSP that given the sad state of the forum and lack of any challenging opponents for TSP, El Diablo will make himself available to play TSP in any game, any format, for any amount of money.

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El D,

can i buy 50% of your action? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] pls don't accusing me of being a EV whore, i just want to show some support [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Gracias! Please note that El Diablo did not provide an opinion wrt the optimal play in this hand. His post was merely to poke fun at TSP, not to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of TSP's suggested line. FWIW, there are numerous online game conditions where El Diablo would call in that spot pre-flop and other situations where he would muck. El Diablo's post-flop line would also be a function of the players in the game. However, El Diablo did not find this hand interesting enough to have a discussion about, whereas poking fun at TSP's ego seemed plenty entertaining. Olé!!!

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why does TSP have such a big ego? does he have a higher win rate than I do??? ok, just kidding, don't get mad ppl.

thanks for all the help

[Coilean]

This:
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You all mean to tell me you dont 3 bet the flop raiser to try to isolate him, then lead on the turn? if you're raised on the turn, muck it.

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And this:
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You are assumed to be able to get away from this hand when appropriate.

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Don't seem to go well together. How is putting in 5SB more postflop and folding on the turn "getting away from the hand"? You know, for the same 5SB you might be able to see a showdown and actually win the pot, too.

[InternetPokerPro]

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This is not a tight 30-60 Bellagio game . . .

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An oxymoron if I ever heard one.