am i laggy?

BolliTrader · #1 06-11-2004, 09:40 PM

The table had been loose passive pre flop for the most part. Pre-flop raiser in this hand was one of few who would be aggressive at times.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: HERO is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Call was maybe a little loose, but I felt this could be a big pot, all the others would just call. If i like the flop move on, otherwise get away.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
HERO bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, CO caps, HERO calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Charge mode here. I've got 15 outs...

Turn: (18.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
HERO bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, HERO 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, HERO calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Still charging, I still have 15 outs.

River: (38.25 BB)J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
HERO Checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, HERO Calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 48.25 BB

Huge pot. If second pair is good 1 in 24 times I'm right to call. UTG+1 took it down w/ broadway.

I'd like to know what you guys think of this hand, but those of you who don't want to read my rant, stop reading now... This is the story of my last few weeks. When I pump a draw I never hit. When I have a made hand I win a small pot or get sucked out buy a 4 outer. Maybe this is just the first time I am truly running bad at LLHE. Maybe it is just growing pains in learning. Whatever it is it SUCKS. At this point I hardly even want to play any more. I don't know what to do. I don't want to play Super Tight Aggressive like I did when I started playing LLHE. Even though it is profitable to play that way, there is at least one other way to play that is more profitable and better prepares you for higher levels (the way we (you guys) talk about here). That's how I want to play, but I seem to suck at it...

Thanks folks,

deke AKA BlindChippy

bobdibble · #2 06-11-2004, 09:47 PM

For what it is worth, this is exactly how I would have played it too, including the preflop call. You have to figure that all those guys are going to call the PF bet too, and the implied odds are enormous here are enormous. I bet out on the flop and turn here too with the oesd and flush draws. Hell, I'd gladly cap this if more than 2 were coming with me.

If anyone would play this differently, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Ralph Wiggum · #3 06-11-2004, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop raiser in this hand was one of few who would be aggressive at times.

[/ QUOTE ] LAG or TAG? It makes a difference.

[ QUOTE ]
Call was maybe a little loose, but I felt this could be a big pot, all the others would just call. If i like the flop move on, otherwise get away.

[/ QUOTE ] This isn't a loose call. If you fold this, then you're way too tight.

Flop: good
Turn: I wouldn't 3-bet (I'd call), but I like it (and I think it might be the better play)
River: I don't think you're good 5% of the time, and how do you know it won't be 3-bet or capped?

BolliTrader · #4 06-11-2004, 10:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
LAG or TAG? It makes a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
I hadn't seen her show down a hand she raised, but she won a few on limps w/ decent drawing hands. She played alot of hands and raised over half of them so I read her as a LAG.
[ QUOTE ]
River: I don't think you're good 5% of the time, and how do you know it won't be 3-bet or capped?

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't. I blame that damn Ed Miller and his you guys fold to much in big pot posts... I'm just kidding about that. I just ordered his book [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

bakku · #5 06-11-2004, 10:41 PM

The only thing I don't like about this hand is the river call. Yes the pot is humongous, but I think you'll be good here about only 1 in every 100k hands with all this action. Even calling one bet here is throwing away money.

As for your rant, I'm not great at motivational speeches so I'll let others do that. All I can say is stay the course and be patient. Taking a break might also help your mental state of mind.

Ralph Wiggum · #6 06-11-2004, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I just ordered his book [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ] It's out?

BolliTrader · #7 06-11-2004, 11:00 PM

It's available as a pre-order...

Ed Miller · #8 06-12-2004, 01:20 AM

River: I don't think you're good 5% of the time, and how do you know it won't be 3-bet or capped?

Be careful. I don't think he should call the river either, but your line about "how do you know it won't be 3-bet or capped" is very dangerous. That thinking is fine when there are more cards to come, as you will have to call those extra bets. That thinking is pretty much NOT fine on the river.

If you call one bet, and it is raised behind you, you can often fold for that one extra bet because the raise has given you so much added information. So while it is virtually never correct to call one bet and fold to a single raise on the flop and turn, it can easily be correct to do just that on the river.

Ralph Wiggum · #9 06-12-2004, 01:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you call one bet, and it is raised behind you, you can often fold for that one extra bet because the raise has given you so much added information. So while it is virtually never correct to call one bet and fold to a single raise on the flop and turn, it can easily be correct to do just that on the river.

[/ QUOTE ] Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that if he called two bets, then he should call a 3-bet (or a cap). When I asked him "how do you know it won't be 3-bet or capped?" I meant to imply that there's no way he knows that he'll get to showdown for just those 2-bets.

ps. looking forward to your book

BolliTrader · #10 06-12-2004, 02:11 AM

Sorry Ed, didn't mean to drag your good name into my horrible play. One of the stories of my life... Here's some asprin, they'll make you feel better. Well if two help I'm gonna take the whole bottle. I knew at the time it was wrong to call, I just wanted to win that damn pot so bad... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Calling didn't win me the pot, just cost me 2 more bets. I'm an idiot.

Thank you all for taking the time to share your wisdom and make this a great forum!