I could use a little help from the big guns.

[aces_full]

I'm new here and this is my first post, so I guess I'm not a "big gun". Part of the answer to your problem lies right in your post itself. You complain about big pairs and big slick not holding up. The fact is if you hold an overpair, the flop will miss you most of the time. In low-limit you have multiple callers and most will play almost any cards from any position. A flop of rags may look innocent to you, but it just may have made someone's day.

When playing low limit, you will never be a winner unless you understand the motivations of your opponents. To begin with, they are ignorant. I don't mean that as an insult, they may be very smart people, they just have no clue how to play poker correctly. In fact, many of them may full well realize that they are poor players, and they EXPECT to lose, but they are at the table to be entertained and not to win. The truth is playing good poker is boring, playing poor poker is exciting.

Keeping this in mind, at low limit, your opponents believe "any two cards can win". They will often play any two cards all the way to showdown, and raises rarely earn any respect. Poor players love aces and face cards, and they will hold on to them like a life vest when the boat is sinking. They also love pairs, any pairs, even if it's bottom pair with AK on board.

Given that your opponents love any two cards, you have flop problems. In my experience, 10 handed games have an average of 7 players seeing the flop. With that many opponents, there is a good chance that even if the flop missed you, someone picked up a piece of it, and they will play any piece of it, regardless of how poor. You can bet until the cows come home, but I guarantee the guy who just flopped a pair of 4's isn't thinking "Maybe he has a pair of overcards"-no,no, no, your opponent is absolutely clueless as to what you might have. All he sees are his 4's, and unfortunately he will often make two pair or trips by the river. Big pairs play well against few opponents, so in low limit they have less value. Drawing hands go up in value because you are usually getting good pot odds, and with so many callers, you often need at least a straight to win at low limit.

All hope is not lost for big pairs. I love to put in the last bet pre-flop with AA or KK. You just have to be prepared for the painful reality of having to dump them if the flop misses you by a mile.

Sometimes I think low-limit is the hardest game to play, simply because there is often no rationality behind your opponents actions. To give you an example of this, they will often raise with garbage because they believe their hand is worth more than it is. Facing this kind of play is puzzling.

Here's an example of what I mean.

I'm on the big blind with AA in a 2-4 game. A player in middle position raises with 66. Now I would almost never raise a low pair like that from middle position. No matter though, I re-raise with my hand, knowing there's no possible way he could have me beat. Now if I were him, there's no way I could ever call a re-raise with pocket sixes, especially with several overcallers. So what does he do? He caps it with his weak pair. The flop came down rags and missed me by a mile. I checked, he bet and I called. I did the same all the way through. He turns over a set of sixes to beat my pair of aces.

When he raised pre-flop, he probably thought he had a legitimate hand. When I re-raised, the possibility that I had a better hand probably never crossed his mind. Why he capped it, I don't know, maybe he thought I was bluffing, maybe he was bluffing. When I called, he should have known he was beat.

[Jdanz]

Thanks for the advice. I suppose the most pertinent is the comment on editing, and believe it or not i actually can write. Half the problem was that i wrote my first message at 2:21 in the morning and the other half was i'm not a firm believer in paragraphs and/or editing after writing about twenty pages for class this week.

I've posted once or twice with little response in multiple forums on this site, but i've found very often one or two threads will dominate an area, with little attention paid to anything else. However i'll keep posting hoping for perhaps slightly more response to specific hand histories, or maybe i'll just title it playing poker for a living week xxx and trick people into commenting.

Anyway thanks for the help and i'd answer individual questions asked of me here, save they're on far to varied topics for this post, and i'll repost more specific questions with the hopefully more relevant information.

Thankfully the bad beats have stopped as of now and my poker tracker registration should go through within the next couple of days and i'll have statistically better information for people on the board to analyze and tear apart. And hopefully a couple of anal professors will improve my writing skills enough that i'll get better at folding kings to flopped aces. Later.

-JDanz

[SpaceFoo]

I am by no means a "big gun."

At .50/1 and only seeing around 20% of the flops you my be playing too tight. In these very loose games prolby 4-6 people see the flop everytime.

I would rarely raise pre-flop and play almost all suited connceters in these games.

Hope it helps

[Mike Gallo]

However i'll keep posting hoping for perhaps slightly more response to specific hand histories, or maybe i'll just title it playing poker for a living week xxx and trick people into commenting.

People will respond. Don't false advertise [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

And hopefully a couple of anal professors will improve my writing skills enough that i'll get better at folding kings to flopped aces. Later.

Why the dig? A few of us attempted to help you. Perhaps your writing style prevented the "big gun" posters from responding.

[JTrout]

While perusing the local Wal-Mart recently, I purchased the cheapest pellet gun they offered. I had in mind plinking the raccoons and possum off my back deck at night! (Yes, I'm serious; and please, no hate mail from PETA).

It was in FAQ section of the instructional manual that I got a nice laugh:

FAQ: Why doesn't my pellet gun shoot straight?\

Answer: This gun was not designed as a precision instrument, but as something that will provide hours of entertainment. You will find the accuracy of this gun consistent with the price you paid for it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

How's that for a little straight-shooting from the manufacturer!

[ericd]

Excellent. I'd like to add a couple more thoughts.

1. Understand your the opposition. I don't know how high up the limit scale you must go (10/20 is my max to date) to find a lot of good players, but I have yet to face more than 2 really good ones at a time. The example of AA being cracked by a small pair that should have been folded is perfect.

2. Reevaluate your hand after the flop. Based on the prior betting and the flop where do you stand?

3. How many people are remaining? What are their tendencies? The number of people remaining is a critical factor.

4. Keep things simple. Figure out what you do best. Avoid spots that trouble you. Much more is lost by bad calls than bad folds.

5. Your long term gains are probably influenced more by reducing your losses in bad times not maximizing your wins during good times. Avoid tilt without becoming weak. Remind yourself that you are in for the long haul and though your may not believe then but the longshot that just beat is just that, a longshot. You have to prevail in those spots over time.

[Franchise (TTT)]

[ QUOTE ]
i can't win with big pocket pairs and big slick almost never holds up to a 4 that rivers the 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're good at math. Convince yourself this isn't a problem, and focus on the REAL issues you should be worrying about.

Majorkong is right. The best posters/players on this forum aren't excellent florid writers, but they do get right ot the point, include what's important, and leave out the chaff. Try and do the same in your head.

[gunboat]

Since you ask.

When making a post, avoid run-on sentences and paragraphs. Use proper capitilization and spelling. Break out each subject into its own paragraph. Use lots of white space to separate ideas.

Does NYU have a course in written communications? If so, you should take it. So many otherwise intelligent people have no clue how to express themselves in writing.

[Mike Gallo]

Gunboat,

Very well written reply.

I would never have imagined the things I would learn besides poker from reading a poker internet forum.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the big blind with AA in a 2-4 game. A player in middle position raises with 66. Now I would almost never raise a low pair like that from middle position. No matter though, I re-raise with my hand, knowing there's no possible way he could have me beat. Now if I were him, there's no way I could ever call a re-raise with pocket sixes, especially with several overcallers. So what does he do? He caps it with his weak pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are few, if any, hands you should fold to a 3-bet after raising, and pocket pairs are definitely not any of those hands. You are getting 5-1 on your call right there and few hands that you originally raised with will be more than a 5-1 underdog.

The fact that there are overcallers makes his pocket pair even more playable because of the set possibilities and winning a large pot. You don't say how many overcallers there are, but it there are more than 4 in the pot, then his cap is fine as he is getting good odds if he makes his set that he will win a large pot.


[ QUOTE ]
The flop came down rags and missed me by a mile. I checked, he bet and I called. I did the same all the way through. He turns over a set of sixes to beat my pair of aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never heard of a flop missing pocket A's by a mile. If the flop was something like 9TJ of a suit you didn't have, then that would be pretty bad. Otherwise, I am probably putting in more than one bet on the flop with pocket A's.