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#1
11-26-2003, 05:57 PM
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3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed). Loose/ pretty passive table (just what I like [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).
Hero has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and is UTG Hero limps, EP1 limps, EP2 limps, MP3(poster) checks, CO limps, Button raises, arg, blinds fold, all call. Flop(14 SB): 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Hero bets, EP1 calls, EP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, EP1 folds, EP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls Turn(12 BB): 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls River(15 BB): Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Hero bets, CO folds, Button folds My question is: should I 3-bet the flop or just call? What would your play be after that? 
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#2
11-26-2003, 06:11 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
unless there's been no pre-flop raising, this is a pretty loose limp UTG. You've got the weakest ace, and you're out of position.
As for the flop: you're drawing to the nuts, so I think you should just call the raise and see if you can milk any stragglers for another bet if/when your flush hits.
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#3
11-26-2003, 06:20 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
should probably have just called that raise on the flop. But considering that you did three bet you could try and act like you were afraid of the turn heart and hope to get more out of them on the river. But that seems way to fancy for 1/2.
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#4
11-26-2003, 07:23 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
Cap the nut flush draw on the flop every friggin' time. You will win way more money this way than you will lose. You're 2-1 to make flush by river. If the heart doesn't fall on turn you likely get a free card there, whereas if you don't cap it on flop you are paying same amount (so technically it isn't free). If it hits on turn you can get a little fancy and derive even more money out of the pot, hopefully.
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#5
11-26-2003, 07:38 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
[ QUOTE ]
unless there's been no pre-flop raising [/ QUOTE ] The table was loose/ passive like I said. [ QUOTE ] got the weakest ace, and you're out of position. [/ QUOTE ] If I don't hit a flush draw, I can lay top pair down easyly if there is resistance. The only reason I call hands like this is because of the flush.
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#7
11-26-2003, 07:42 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
There is no reason to 3bet that flop with 3 more people between you and the raiser unless you are almost positive they will come along.
As it was they didn't and your 3bet did not increase the money in the pot, infact it only added an extra $1 of yours to it so you paid an extra $1 for the same sized pot. When your flush hits the turn things get complicated and depend on alot of circumstances so I won't even go there.
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#8
11-26-2003, 07:45 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
I would only call the flop raise in order to try to keep as many people in this pot as possible. It is extremely unlikely that you are going to win this hand unimproved, so try to get as much money into the pot now without having to put in an extra bet.
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#9
11-26-2003, 07:48 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
[ QUOTE ]
Cap the nut flush draw on the flop every friggin' time. You will win way more money this way than you will lose. You're 2-1 to make flush by river. [/ QUOTE ] I know, but I was just wondering which way would give me the most. I don't think 3-betting is wrong, nor is calling. I just want to get a better idea of the advantages and disadvantages of both plays and how you continue. [ QUOTE ] If the heart doesn't fall on turn you likely get a free card there [/ QUOTE ] I don't have position, so I don't think I will get a free card. [ QUOTE ] If it hits on turn you can get a little fancy and derive even more money out of the pot [/ QUOTE ] I don't think that's true in this case. If I C/R the turn I probably force the CO out and get the same 2BB. When I just bet out I can hopefully 3-bet to get the most out of the hand. I don't think C/R is a good play after a flop 3-bet/cap.
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#10
11-26-2003, 07:50 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
[ QUOTE ]
There is no reason to 3bet that flop with 3 more people between you and the raiser unless you are almost positive they will come along. As it was they didn't and your 3bet did not increase the money in the pot, infact it only added an extra $1 of yours to it so you paid an extra $1 for the same sized pot. When your flush hits the turn things get complicated and depend on alot of circumstances so I won't even go there. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? What if they three in the middle have hands like AX or 10,j and your three bet folds those. Then, instead of a blank hitting on turn an Ace does and you just folded the aces out now giving you top pair and the button was playing his pocket JJ, tens or possibly even nines agressively as he should? Your three bet just increased your way of winning the hand other than the nut flush. Now, don't me wrong if an ace falls I'm not betting it on turn or river head to head like this but you still have a chance to win a pot checked down or called down if another heart doesn't arrive and an ace does.
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