TT turn decision heads up

[KHALI]

2/4 have been at table for 4 or 5 orbits. Have had good run and played a few hands hard even though they were not nut so I figure if any image I may be seen as crazyish? If they pay attention.Coincidentally I have had good cards either in steal positions or in blind versus steal and have played the heads up hands aggressively I think. Seting the stage a bit , here is hand.

I am in CO with TcTd
folded to me Hero raises, button fold, sb fold, bb calls

I have been involved in a hand with him where he raised two early limpers, I flopped two pair and bet into field and he folded with paint on board??? I also saw him open raise in mid with 55 and check down on the river. His play doesn't seem too out of line and he will get weak I think.

2 to flop of Ks 8c 3d

BB bets, hero raises, bb calls.

What do you think? Raise is standard here right? Folding gives him a lot of credit but I would versus some guys and calling seems weak as well. But with no draws he can't have too many hands and lots of them are ahead of me.

Turn 4d
BB checks, Hero ???

Choose a line here: bet/fold to check raise, bet check behind on river, bet and bet river, check and call river.

I am struggling between betting and checking behind on river as I think he has a hand like A8,98,78suited etc... enough here but I may be way behind so this may be situation where I should check and induce a bluff from an 8 and lose minimum to a K. What would your standard line be? To let the cat out of the bag I bet turn.


Thanks for your thoughts.

[silkyslim]

I would probably just call down and get to showdown. You dont need a free card and you are giving him more $ when he has a K, and scaring him away when he has less.

[McGahee]

I think the flop is the hardest part. This would be a pain in the ass if you got 3-bet or donked on the turn. The rest is pretty easy - bet/fold the turn and probably check the river.

In these cases, with a hand like TT where so many overcards can come on the river (A Q or J), I have been tending to bet the turn and check behind on the river. If this is wrong, can someone tell me why?

[W. Deranged]

As for the flop...

[ QUOTE ]


...and calling seems weak as well...

[/ QUOTE ]

I see this kind of reasoning a lot and it sort of frustrates me. Winning 2+2 small stakes players are taught early in their poker education to avoid being "weak" but I think often a lot of folks apply that idea without much subtlety and it greatly limits their perspective on the game.

Personally, I manage to maintain a post-flop agg. factor of 2.8 or so and I do plenty of calling. In fact, I feel like I've been calling more and more in recent months and my agg. factor continues to increase , probably because I'm making more sound calls in situations I had been raising (or folding) but at the same time making even more sound folds in situations I had been calling.

Anyway, end of rant. On to the hand in question...

This is admiteddly pretty tough. Considering that you are in position and there are no draws to speak of, it seems that a very prudent way to play this hand is simply to ensure that a bet goes in on every street. If your opponent is playing a hand with an 8 in it, you can be pretty sure to get in 2.5 BB if you want to anyway, so raising the flop doesn't seem to make much sense strictly from a value standpoint. (I think it's a big ambitious to believe that our hand is worth more than 2.5 BB or something total here). Since in the hand in question I really want to see a showdown, I don't really believe there's any value to raising the flop in order to save bets or gain information, as we'll usually have put in a bunch of money before we can find a fold here anyway (unless villain three-bets, which he won't often do even with a K).

So I think this is a good situation to take the ole':

Call-down and bet if checked to (and I include the river as well; if he bets both the flop and the turn and checks the river, I'm value-betting and feeling pretty sexy doing so...)

[KHALI]

I agree that calling isn't always bad and here in position in could be a choice to think about. I raised to see if my hand was good and to try to set up a free showdown although in retrospect I could check behind on turn and see river with an induced bluff for 1BB or lose only 1 more BB but the turn bet here could be check raised and bet out on river costing me 3BB or it could be donked on river by a hand like KJ who is taking a WA/WB type line and I would have to pay off that as well. I'm starting to think the flop raise is OK but play the other streets different.

Here is rest of hand

I bet turn BB called.

River is Qd

BB checks and I check behind

Villian shows AhKh and my hand is no good.

I am thinking about this hand a lot even though it was a small pot. I think it is interesting conceptual hand that I don't quite get. Even in writing it I am leaning back to betting turn to charge any 8 to outdraw adn there are so many cards that could be bad even though there are no real draws. ANy ace, Q,J,9,8,7 could be a problem and villian showed only little aggression. Anyways I ramble

Thanks for the thoughts.