Still Unsure Of My Loose Games Strategy

Most of the recent games I'm involved with at the 5-10 at Taj and 6-12 are with 3-4 regulars and considered to be typical but rarely the loosey-goosey-community-card type until this past Sat. Except for 1 regular, the table was comprised of WPT-audience types and loose tourists with call-any-pair-play-any-ace mentalities. Seven-handed or more PF even with a raise was not uncommon sprinkled with a few family pots. Aggressive PF raises were few and quite predictable.

The first thing I did was the mental preparation to brace myself neither to go on tilt nor get upset for the inevitable bad beats (I surely got a few of them in the session). Then, I had to dig deep into my 59-year old brain to recall whatever I can from the Loose Section of HEPFAP.

The first couple of hours, however was with mixed results. With very few hands to play and bbs that I took gracefully (no excuse-me-while-I-get-a-Tylenol "childish" behaviour according to Dynasty), [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I was up about 50 bucks while some of my opponents' stacks were like roller coaster and a couple with the wall of China in front of them. I decided to loosen up with my game like:

1)limping in cheaply with unsuited connectors down to 98 at CO.
2)limping in cheaply down to A7o at CO thinking that against any-ace player, I am about 5-4 as they're still capable of raising PF with AA, AK, AQ.
3) limping only with AKo, AQo, any pocket pair JJ and lower and other multi-way hands I would raise with in a typical game.
4) played post flop only when the odds of drawing were favorable.

There were few times that I knowingly gambled with marginal hands probably because of being carried away by the flow of the game. Other than that, I did quite well with +30BB after 7 hours.

Any comments and other suggestions to play such loose games.?


2

[ChipWrecked]

I subscribe to the Abdul/Izmet school for loose games, i.e. draws gain value. I don't like playing unsuited cards without high card value no matter how cheap the flop. Flush draws are mostly what I'm after, and I jam the pot if I have a draw to the nuts. With that in mind I prefer suited aces to connectors. I commit the heresy of limping with these in early position if I feel no raise is coming. If I flop a good draw, I will bet/reraise, or checkraise if I feel confident a bet is coming behind, and lead out the turn. If the flop misses me, check/fold.

Beware top pair, I think you need to showdown something more powerful in these games.

Just my thoughts. Good luck.

[rockoon]

I think you should loosen up.

Not raising your big aces preflop is correct. Why correct their play?

[Gahnia radula]

"Flush draws are mostly what I'm after, and I jam the pot if I have a draw to the nuts."

I play live LL HE (4/8) and it is quite common for the games to get quite loose with large multiway pots becoming the norm.

Which makes me wonder if i should be playing Axs from EP. At the moment im mucking these hands.

If there are 6-7 limpers in each pot with little to no PF raising should i be playing Axs regardless of position? as flushes definely get paid in these games (at least the loose games im playing in)

[Nottom]

I subscribe to the raise your good hands and wreck the implied odds of your opponents pre-flop theory of playing in loose games. I really think not raising AK and the big suited Aces is a mistake in these games. Also avoid biggish offsuit cards and Ax unless the situation is just right, since those are the hands most likely to just cost you money.

Axs and small pairs are playable from pretty much anywhere if the game is like you describe so don't be afraid to limp in EP with these hands.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi ID4:

1)limping in cheaply with unsuited connectors down to 98 at CO.

OK.

2)limping in cheaply down to A7o at CO thinking that against any-ace player, I am about 5-4 as they're still capable of raising PF with AA, AK, AQ.

No. Should be losers in multiway pots.

3) limping only with AKo, AQo, any pocket pair JJ and lower and other multi-way hands I would raise with in a typical game.

If they play really bad you should raise with these hands before the flop.

4) played post flop only when the odds of drawing were favorable.

You should always be doing this regardless of the game.

best wishes,
Mason

[crockpot]

your A7o strategy will get you into lots of trouble in multiway pots unless you hit two pair or trip sevens a lot.

i would personally stop with the unsuited connectors at JT, but playing T9o and 98o won't cost you that much if the other players are really bad.

raise with AK preflop for sure, and if the other players are really that bad you should raise with AQ and JJ too.

i have a starting hand guide to very loose games on my website, which is designed for 50%/flop games. if your game is at 60% you can play even looser than this.

My change in strategy of loosening with A7o and tightening by not raising with AKo, AQo and JJ were all session-specific. As a stated in my original posts, most of my opponents were very loose PF, playing any ace, any 2-suited or connectors and would school-in calling a PF raiser. Most would stay only if they hit the flop, otherwise they fold. Now, by raising with AKo, AQo, (which I did BTW early in the session), my betting out when I missed the flop were always called by 2nd or bottom pairs and I wound up losing the hand. With A7o and an A flop, I knew I'm a dog against AA-A8 but favored against A6o on down. Now, they may not be knowledgeable but THEY KNOW when to raise with AK, AQ, and AJ, so my chances of being outkicked is reduced. Now, if only a 7 flops, then I know that I could be in deep s**t and will respond accordingly. In a typical game, I am hard-pressed to call with A9o even on the button.

Well, I knew I gambooled a bit in this game and thanks to everyone for their input.

[TaintedRogue]

Seven-handed or more PF even with a raise was not uncommon sprinkled with a few family pots. Aggressive PF raises were few and quite predictable.

1)limping in cheaply with unsuited connectors down to 98 at CO.

I do not believe you are going to see a profit long term playing 98os. The odds of catching a 6+outer on the flop is 6.4:1. Excluding the rare times you flop two pair, trips or a made hand, you'll have to see 7-8 hands to flop a draw. Then, with 6 outs, your chances of catching by the river is 3.25:1. Do the math.......where's the profit? The unsuited connector is a hand to play from the small blind with alot of limpers or the big blind with alot of players and only one raise.
98 suited is another story. Odds of catching a 6+ outer is 3.4:1.

2)limping in cheaply down to A7o at CO thinking that against any-ace player, I am about 5-4 as they're still capable of raising PF with AA, AK, AQ.

This is worse than going home with the "leftovers" at the local bar at 2am. May give you some temporary relief if you're lucky and it's good.......otherwise, kind of hard to look in the mirror in the morning and say to yourself: "good play!"

3) limping only with AKo, AQo, any pocket pair JJ and lower and other multi-way hands I would raise with in a typical game.

If you hit your hand (AQos) on the flop against 6 players, they are not all going to have paint and are not going to like the flop. They are not all going to pay to see the Turn. So you raise preflop and fold on the flop if you don't get the cards. Chasing with T87 and such is where you lose money with these hands. Limping with pairs against several opponents is fine.

4) played post flop only when the odds of drawing were favorable.

I hope so.
There were few times that I knowingly gambled with marginal hands probably because of being carried away by the flow of the game.

[Bozeman]

I haven't checked your math, so I will presume it is correct.

If there are even 5 people to the flop, 98o will flop a 6+ draw 6.4:1, but will flop a 5 out draw a lot. The 5 out draws will be marginally profitable, and they will sometimes be good unimproved. You also are only 12.6:1 against to flop 2 pair or better (did I get that one right?), so if the description of the game is correct, I would play even 54o.

As for A7, I think the possible chops with lower aces, the chance of better aces behind you, and the fact that you will probably lose more on later streets when you are behind than you will win when you are ahead push this one into the muck. It might be marginally profitable, but just the 5:4 argument is insufficient.

Craig