#1
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Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
An interesting hand just occured. Comments?
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx ($19.35) MP2 ($88.75) CO ($40.55) Button ($38) SB ($123.95) BB ($57) UTG ($20.80) UTG+1 ($197.30) Preflop:Hero is UTG+1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, calls $1, MP2 calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $7.5</font>, Button calls $7.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $6.50, UTG calls $6.50, UTG+1 calls $6.50, folds, MP2 calls $6.50. Flop: ($46.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $33.05 (All-In)</font>, Button folds, BB calls $33.05, UTG calls $13.30 (All-In), Hero... Well, what do you guys think? -Hero bets/fold? -Hero bets/calls any raise? -Hero bets/calls raises by shortstacks but not by Mp2? -Hero bets pot, potcommits himself against Mp2 and the rest of the table, switches to 10/20 and watch some better players play the game? -Hero check/folds? -Hero check/raises? |
#2
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
Fold preflop
Check-fold postflop Playing middle pairs out of position / in raised pots is death for your BR. |
#3
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop Check-fold postflop Playing middle pairs out of position / in raised pots is death for your BR. [/ QUOTE ] I get the whole middle pair OOP thing, but wouldn't you play this hand from just about any position for the straight/freeroll potential? As long as you have the discipline to get away from bottom set, it would seem like there is a lot of potenial for this hand. I agree the original poster's situation is not good with bottom set and the idiot end of the straight draw. He is likely to be drawing very thin against 3 all-in opponents. |
#4
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
I totally disagree with Joe. Stuff it in. You very likely have BB beat, so your equity in the sidepot will finance a decent portion of your investment in the main pot. If CO has KK, so be it, but you are most likely ahead here with a set against these short stacks who basically committed preflop. And you have a draw to the nuts and all kinds of possibilities for making the best non-nut hand.
I crack people all the time with bottom set, for much bigger pots than this. I think bottom set is highly underrated. I would have folded to the raise preflop though, cause you realy don't have the implied odds you need to call that raise with a hand like this. You are not going to flop a worthwhile hand very often, so you need to have the potential to stack someone big time when you hit to make it worthwhile. |
#5
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
[ QUOTE ]
I totally disagree with Joe. Stuff it in. You very likely have BB beat, so your equity in the sidepot will finance a decent portion of your investment in the main pot. If CO has KK, so be it, but you are most likely ahead here with a set against these short stacks who basically committed preflop. And you have a draw to the nuts and all kinds of possibilities for making the best non-nut hand. I crack people all the time with bottom set, for much bigger pots than this. I think bottom set is highly underrated. I would have folded to the raise preflop though, cause you realy don't have the implied odds you need to call that raise with a hand like this. You are not going to flop a worthwhile hand very often, so you need to have the potential to stack someone big time when you hit to make it worthwhile. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Knowing you are a favorite over the BB is huge here because he is committed to calling and building a sidepot with you. Thinking just about the main pot, there is 125 in there now, 33 to call, so you need 21% equity to profit from a call from the main pot, if MP2 folds. With 5 outs to the nuts (albeit hitting the 4 is potentially subject to a ton of redraws) you almost certainly have 21% equity given that you are the only one with a set a reasonable percentage of the time. And because you have > 50% equity against BB's range of hands in a sidepot, you actually need less than 21% if you push, which you should, because: If BB has top two or QJT or something, you want to get his $24 in now. Against anything but QJT7, 99, or KK, you are a strong favorite and he very rarely just calls with a set on this board. You also want to get MP2 to fold 99 or a weak straight draw. So push and pray. Oh. I don't hate the preflop call, but a fold is probably marginally better, given that this scenario is about the best you can hope for and any hand you make, even a flopped straight, is subject to redraws. The main problem is that the other stacks are so small |
#6
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
Well, the call from BB was the key for me, since it most likely puts me ahead in the sidepot. So I did what Tilt and LearnedFromTV suggested. I pushed. Thanks for the comments everyone.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $189.7</font>, MP2 folds, BB calls $16.45 (All-In). Turn: ($191.85) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 3 all-in)</font> River: ($191.85) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players, 3 all-in)</font> Final Pot: $191.85 BB has 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (straight, jack high). UTG has T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (straight, king high). UTG+1 has 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (four of a kind, eights). CO has Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, aces and eights) Outcome: UTG+1 wins $191.85. |
#7
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
Yes pal.
How dare you do this play? |
#8
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Re: Bottom set and weak openended against shortstacks
I'm not familar with games at this level but normally, the more raising I receive, big stacks permitting, the better with this hand. Lots of limpers is potentially much much worse.
gl dd |
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