Another AK OOP Hand...

Maybe we are giving villain too much credit. Without reads, could villain be overplaying K-x clubs? Hero's check on the turn may give villain more gumption to follow through, and perhaps does not realize that hero has odds to call the river - I cannot say that I have never seen this at $50 NL.

Just a thought.

[nWirb]

[ QUOTE ]
Yvesaint, dont take this the wrong way. Im still learning, so i have a question in regards to your earlier response. First of all , I do fold 44 to a 4x raise. Secondly, I thought a raise from utg usually indicated real strength? Again im not saying your wrong, im just trying to learn. You have far more experience than I, so school me.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG raise is typically a big hand like AA-JJ AK, and since 95% of the players on this limit are uncapable to fold an overpair or TPTK you figure to take villians entire stack most of the time when you flop a set.
You are calling with the worst hand for the implied odds.

[Ojo_Rojo]

I would call the flop raise, and lead the (blank) turn for about 1/2 pot, folding to a raise.

I think this line would have cost you about the same amount of money, maybe less. You might even get to a showdown, and is a better line if your opponent was semibluffing on the flop.

Ojo_Rojo

[Riposte]

Anything wrong with just folding to the flop raise? With no read on this guy, players at these stakes aren't prone to semi-bluff raise with draws. If the guy is drawing, the average $50NL player calls down. A raise means two-pair or better to me. Bad thinking on my part?

[nWirb]

I think there's atleast a 5% chance villian is bluffing here and more then a 10% chance he is doing this with KT-KQ.
I don't know if you have any reads on villian, but I've seen the typical partydonks™ do this with KT-KQ many many times.
That being said I like a c/c on the river more, villian might have read you for a flush draw here, since your line is consistent with a nut fdraw here IMHO, he might even have put you on something like QQ-JJ and make a very small vb on the river with a set or something like KJ giving you a cheap showdown.
If you are beat on the river here 100% of the time maybe it's time to start thinking about changing game to 6max or work on your table selection, in this thread most seems to assume villian plays extremly good and, well, maybe he is.
But then, if everyone plays this good at 50NL full ring why play that game? That's more -EV then making the wrong decision on this river.

[Ojo_Rojo]

[ QUOTE ]
Anything wrong with just folding to the flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont know. Lots of 2+2ers seem to be advocating this - but I'm sure that its too weak tight, at least against most players - and leaves you vulnerable to semibluffs (which I know youre partial to making!).

I guess its fine as long as people dont think youre doing it regularly..

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Ojo_Rojo

[Riposte]

Don't tell anyone, but yeah, I always fold top pair to a raise. I don't even want to tangle with it. Looking back in my hand history, more often than not it's two pair or better that I'm up against. Unless it's some crazy LAG of course, I'll call down.

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
Anything wrong with just folding to the flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Without a read, I wouldn't. I see too many players raising a hand like KQ in this spot. Had I been running Gametime or Pokerace and seen that the guy is like a 15% VPIP nutpeddler, I would probably have folded.

This is a difficult problem without a read on your opponent.

-If he's solid/tight I'd say he had a set of 9's and raised the flop in case you had a flush draw (AKs).

-If he's a typical loose player a set is unlikely since they love to trap with strong hands. KQ or even KJ become strong possiblities.

-If he's a maniac then the flush draw is a good possiblity. However, the bluff on the end was a bad play since the price to call was huge.

-If he's a strong player it's probably 50/50. Just gotta go with your gut.

No matter what the case the fold on the end was a mistake, IMO. I like to settle these types of confrontations on the flop with a fold or a re-raise. With an unknown player I'd lean toward re-raise. If my opponent moves in then it turns into a math problem.