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#1
08-08-2005, 02:45 PM
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Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
SB is 28/6/3.5, MP is 31/5/.5. This hand confused me. With the flush draw, I wasn't going anywhere, but what about the river? I hit 2 pair, but MP woke up on the turn when my Q hit. Unlikely he slowplayed Ax with the action on the flop and the flush draw possibilities. Maybe a straight? Slowplayed set?
What do villains have and what's my river play? Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed) converter Preflop: AliasMrJones is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Folded to MP who limps, folded to AliasMrJones who limps, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> SB bets, BB folds, MP calls, AliasMrJones raises, SB 3-bets, MP calls, AliasMrJones calls. Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> . SB bets, MP raises, AliasMrJones calls, SB calls. River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, MP bets, AliasMrJones... 
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#2
08-08-2005, 02:47 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
Just call.
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#3
08-08-2005, 02:48 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
Based on the aggro numbers for the respective villains, I'd say a call is in order. There are times when you will want to promotion raise here, but since SB has a 3.5 agg. factor while MP has a .5, MP is much more likely to have the better hand here. Hence, I doubt we'll have value in folding a better hand from SB (and have MP beat) often enough to merit a promo raise.
I think the pot's a little too big to fold. My only other comment would be that I'm not thrilled with the pre-flop call, though I would make it sometimes if I have a good handle on my opponents (namely, if I'm playing live and not online).
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#4
08-08-2005, 02:52 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
I remember a hand similar to this in theory of poker, and it is an overcall situation.
Basically, we're not sure whether we're ahead of MP1 or not, but we're pretty sure we're ahead of sb. If we just call we can get an overcall from SB and don't open the betting to MP1 any further. If we raise, SB will likely fold and if ahead we get 1 more bet from MP1 and possibly get 3-bet while behind. So essentially, when we're ahead calling will get us approximately the same value as raising, and we lose less when behind.
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#5
08-08-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
[ QUOTE ]
My only other comment would be that I'm not thrilled with the pre-flop call, though I would make it sometimes if I have a good handle on my opponents (namely, if I'm playing live and not online). [/ QUOTE ] Would you still limp it? I have a problem ever limping from the button with just one mp/lp limper behind me. It does way too much to identify my range of hands and gives up way too much in fold equity, imo. SB disrespects Hero's raise here for exactly those reasons I suspect. I would too.
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#6
08-08-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
The problem with this hand is that it plays best in a multi-way pot where it can cash in on flush potential. It puts you in bad domination situations and is very unlikely to hold up unimproved. I see no real reason to get involved behind a seemingly legit limper in a small pot.
In Hero's position, behind one limper on the button, I much, much prefer to enter with hands that I can come in for a raise with, and that will (depending on the profile of the limper) often include some fairly weak hands like A9 and 66.
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#7
08-08-2005, 03:18 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
I think this is a fairly easy limp on the button after a loose/weak MP limper with the blinds probably both coming along.
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#8
08-08-2005, 03:19 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
[ QUOTE ]
SB disrespects Hero's raise here for exactly those reasons I suspect. I would too. [/ QUOTE ] Actually SB disrespected my raise because he had 2 pair...
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#9
08-08-2005, 05:35 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
[ QUOTE ]
It puts you in bad domination situations and is very unlikely to hold up unimproved. I see no real reason to get involved behind a seemingly legit limper in a small pot. [/ QUOTE ] When someone with a 31 VPIP open-limps in MP, Q9s is a dominating hand, not a dominated one. I love to isolate loose/passive opponents with position, so I would usually raise here pre-Flop. I don't mind just calling, either, but I think folding would be absurd. -Brian
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#10
08-08-2005, 05:37 PM
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Re: Hit 2 pair on river -- now what?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It puts you in bad domination situations and is very unlikely to hold up unimproved. I see no real reason to get involved behind a seemingly legit limper in a small pot. [/ QUOTE ] When someone with a 31 VPIP open-limps in MP, Q9s is a dominating hand, not a dominated one. I love to isolate loose/passive opponents with position, so I would usually raise here pre-Flop. I don't mind just calling, either, but I think folding would be absurd. -Brian [/ QUOTE ] Given that Q7 is the average "computer hand" in hold'em, I really fail to see how Q9s can be called a "dominating" hand, even against someone with 31% VPIP. 70% maybe...
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