|
|
#11
07-28-2005, 02:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You have an M of 3 and are very desperate. If you were the first to enter the pot, you should have moved all-in with all three of these holdings. With such a low M, you are more concerned with the first in vigorish, than your actual cards. You should only be folding the very worst hands here. This may seem aggressive, but conservative play will not save you at this point. [/ QUOTE ] Is your real name Dan Harrington? Glad you joined the forum Dan! [/ QUOTE ] Geez, Pulp, the guy might simply be repeating Harrington, but he's still right AND contributing to the discussion. 
|
|
#12
07-28-2005, 03:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You have an M of 3 and are very desperate. If you were the first to enter the pot, you should have moved all-in with all three of these holdings. With such a low M, you are more concerned with the first in vigorish, than your actual cards. You should only be folding the very worst hands here. This may seem aggressive, but conservative play will not save you at this point. [/ QUOTE ] Is your real name Dan Harrington? Glad you joined the forum Dan! [/ QUOTE ] Geez, Pulp, the guy might simply be repeating Harrington, but he's still right AND contributing to the discussion. [/ QUOTE ] I know, just giving him a hard time. This happened to me right after I read HOH1, and responded in a similar fashion. He gave good advice and hopfully has fairly thick skin. Pulp
|
|
#14
07-28-2005, 04:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
I'm pushing 65o in the cutoff given these 3 choices. You have first in vig and 3 to go with probably two live cards. I hate A3 from EP- you're gonna get called and a good chance your behind. I'd take any two with position over a weak ace from EP any day.
yabastid
|
|
#15
07-28-2005, 05:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
I'm definitely pushing the 65, and probably the Q6, although if I push both of those I fold the A3. I don't know if this is merely anecdotal, but my experience has been that when you push three times in a row people will be itching to pick you off.
Do not push early position with Ax. You will almost always be up against it, unless your table is ultra-tight. (It took busting out at the second-to-last table twice in a row with Ax suited from up front before I learned that.)
|
|
#16
07-28-2005, 06:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
I'm surprised that no one asked for the stack sizes of the blinds in each case. The first thing I do before I get any cards in this situation is to scan the table looking for consecutive weak stacks that might avoid confrontation until after the bubble. I would rate blind stack sizes at least as important as position.
I should elaborate: pick on a large stack BB and he might call just to send a message, pick on the short stack and he might call just because he had no choice. Look for stacks that are somewhat comfortable to get in but will be on the bubble if they loose.
|
|
#17
07-28-2005, 06:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
fold, fold, fold.
65o is the only one that is close. Riverdood made a good post. Don't be one of those players that is willing to surrender as soon as they slip below 6BBs, you can afford some patience. If I were grading these pushes: 65o: C+, good use of position and rags - work on hand selection, exercise patience. Q6o: F, demonstrates lack of understanding of position and card value. Student needs to excerise patience. Student needs to study hand values. Recommend time with pokerstove. A3o: D+, Demonstrates lack of understanding of position. May over-value aces. CSC
|
|
#18
07-28-2005, 07:14 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
[ QUOTE ]
fold, fold, fold. 65o is the only one that is close. Riverdood made a good post. Don't be one of those players that is willing to surrender as soon as they slip below 6BBs, you can afford some patience. If I were grading these pushes: 65o: C+, good use of position and rags - work on hand selection, exercise patience. Q6o: F, demonstrates lack of understanding of position and card value. Student needs to excerise patience. Student needs to study hand values. Recommend time with pokerstove. A3o: D+, Demonstrates lack of understanding of position. May over-value aces. CSC [/ QUOTE ] Ok, you have some splanin to do. IMO, 1 is auto, 2 is close, 3 is fold. 1 will only change if BB is extremely large/small or very good/bad in a sense that their calling range is very wide here. #1 With 5xBB, it is very tough to give a calling range that isnt 'any two that beat me' that makes this -CEV. Given the fact that there are antes means that a successful push gives us 7-8 BB and a full load of F.E. Your starting requirements will increase for the rest of this orbit, coupled with the fact that we may not see an unopened put until UG. Even if we know that BB has ATo and will call this isnt horrible equity wise. I have no problem winning the blinds 30% of the time and taking a 40/60 for 10+ BB the rest. I think you take a slightly -CEV play here (even though I think #1 is probably +CEV), given the fact that you are unlikley to see a higher play which wil offer you a better spot to get your chips in. Every hand, you lose an ante. So next hand to be the same expected number of total chips as this one, we will need: -A hand big enough to compensate for one more potential caller, plus make up for the ante we just lost -A pot that is unopened. It is more the oppoertunity cost of not pushing being so big here over the benefits of pushing
|
|
#19
07-28-2005, 07:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
Well, first of all, it isn't 60/40, run the numbers. You're looking at 2:1.
So, lets run it: Fold here and you have 5BB Push: 30% of the time you steal the blinds and take 2BB = 7BB push and called: happens 70%. 66% of the time you are out. 34% you are called and win, now have 11BBs. So, .3*7 +.66*.7*11 = 7.2BB So.... looks like you are right. Given your "get called 70% of the time, this is a push." CSC
|
|
#20
07-28-2005, 07:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: When to Push Short Stacked
Let's not lose sight of the fact that there's 1250 in each pot and hero only has 3000. Personally I like to start pushing sooner, but since you didn't I think the 65o is a must. Also, if the table is playing tight due to fear of busting before the money, I would open up and start pushing a number of hands / situations until I got a stack I was comfortable with bringing to the final table.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
