"When you don't believe in God..........

[David Sklansky]

"The exact same number who
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and" they "shall be saved"."

Do they also have to believe that those who don't believe will not be saved?

[BluffTHIS!]

NotReady, I know you don't like responding to me, but I have a semantics question. Why do fundamentalists prefer to say "believe on" rather than "believe in"? And regarding the Mormons, if they are super pious and wear one of those masonic inspired undergarments with astronomical sign cutouts, does that help their chances of being saved?

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Do they also have to believe that those who don't believe will not be saved?


[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they?

[NotReady]

NASV
31They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

KJV
31So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

What sayeth the Vulgate?

[ QUOTE ]

And regarding the Mormons, if they are super pious and wear one of those masonic inspired undergarments with astronomical sign cutouts, does that help their chances of being saved?


[/ QUOTE ]

You can't write anything without including an insult, can you?

[David Sklansky]

Oh good. I was a little confused about that. So this means that BluffTHIS and Pair the Board probably AREN'T going to hell. I was a little worried. This in spite of the fact that BluffTHIS posts regarding you, show more contempt toward you than mine do, and Pair The Board likens you to a child molestor (and he isn't firmly anti abortion. And he believes in Santa Claus ) Guess you are more tolerant than I thought.

Still no hope for Bossjj though huh?

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Still no hope for Bossjj though huh?


[/ QUOTE ]

Hope springs eternal.

Can I have a cookie now?

Bedtime.

[BluffTHIS!]

The vulgate says "Crede in Domino Iesu et salvus eris tu et domus tua". And the latin "in" can be properly translated both "in" and "on" in english as well as some other prepositional phrases, though "in" is the more frequent. However, the original KJV is not a fantastic translation, because more emphasis was put on being poetically beautiful than on being faithful to the original text, and because some things were simply made up. The doxology at the end of the Lord's prayer (for thine in the kingdom . . ) being an example. I would look up the koine but it makes my head hurt.

And I did not mean to be insulting at all regarding the Mormon question. I was merely being facetious and pointing out one of the many ridiculous aspects of their beliefs.

[CancerMan]

This isn't an attempt to blow your mind or make you go nuts, I've just wondered this. Why would God an all perfect being creating a World with a snake, an evil creature in it. If he was all perfect and all knowing he had to know the future was going to be that Adam and Eve would have sinned and would have needed to be cast from the Garden. How come he couldn't have had them avoid that and live in everlasting bliss? I mean, he could have easily created them, or put into them an innate knowledge to simply "Say no to Snakes?" Is it that God wanted the human race to truely suffer an existance rather than be his perfect children in Heaven? Is it that, that would have been boring for him? Boring for him to have perfect people with perfect lives in a perfect existance? Also, couldn't he have seen all the divisions in the church occurring or the faults that are common in having humans convert his words into language? Couldn't it have been something more absolute and less debatable, like a holy mountain with the scripture readily apparent on it? I don't understand why God has man as the middle man, who are easily corruptable and misunderstood. Well, I'm sure I'm get torn to pieces on this post due to grammar, babbling so on so forth, but thanks to those who seriously answer this.



Please let's not consult the bible for facts. The fact that you would not be offended by the mormon faith, namely it's founder Joseph Smith is appauling to me. Any, I recommend you look at Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

If you've ever used your hands or eyes for sinful purposes, please cut them off now. Matthew told you to! It's much better than going to hell.

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
...A few things are clearly suspect however, such as the pre-existence of the soul.

...I don't want to go into detail here but I think very little of what I saw concerning Mormon doctrine is even close to Scriptural.

...I'm not that familiar with this subject though I did examine it for a while many years ago and became convinced that it isn't based on Scripture. It seems to be something of a hybrid, not unlike Islam, and has some similarities to that religion with respect to its claims to new revelation.

However, many of the problems with Mormonism can be documented and there are clearly major contradictions with the Bible, much as you find in Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

Christianity did the exact same thing that you accuse Mormons and Muslims of doing: All three founded a new religion based on alleged new revelation from God that contradicted the Hebrew bible. Christians just did it earlier than the other two. If Christians can do it, why not Muslims and Mormons also? As I said in another thread:

"According to Christian theology, God supposedly gave a "new testament" that completely contradicts everything He had said in the "old testament."

"For example, according to the Hebrew bible, sincere repentence alone atones for sins committed; God is one, He is not a man, and we are to worship Him alone; God is "near to all those who call upon Him" and no mediator is necessary; We Jews are to observe Torah law forever and to go to our own sages for questions of interpretation; We must not follow anybody like Jesus or the gt authors who tell us not to follow Torah Law; The messiah will usher in an age of world peace and universal knowledge of God - He won't atone for our sins because that's just not his role, as God forgives us our sins when we repent. Jesus' alleged death couldn't atone for sin."

So if God can lie, change His mind and contradict everything He told us in the Hebrew bible (as must have happened for Christianity to be true), then Islam or Mormonism may also be true religions from God. God may have decided that Christianity is not longer correct, and that is why He sent Mohammed and Joseph Smith.

BTW, in Judaism there is a belief in reincarnation and "pre-existence of the soul"; those beliefs do not contradict the Hebrew bible, unlike most of Christian theology.

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Why would God an all perfect being creating a World with a snake, an evil creature in it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Christians believe that the snake in Genesis is either a symbol for Satan or that Satan appeared as a snake. God didn't create Satan evil, but Satan rebelled against God.

As for why God allowed evil into the world, we have no perfect answer. It's difficult to see how God could create a being with free will but also guarantee that it won't sin.

[ QUOTE ]

Couldn't it have been something more absolute and less debatable, like a holy mountain with the scripture readily apparent on it? I don't understand why God has man as the middle man, who are easily corruptable and misunderstood.


[/ QUOTE ]

Remember Adam and Eve had direct communication with God and still questioned His Word and then rebelled against Him.

[ QUOTE ]

Please let's not consult the bible for facts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Since it's God's Word, of course I will consult it.

[ QUOTE ]

The fact that you would not be offended by the mormon faith, namely it's founder Joseph Smith is appauling to me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I said I didn't want to offend any individual Mormon. I certainly disagree with much of what official Mormonism says.

[ QUOTE ]

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast i nto everlasting fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee! , pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

If you've ever used your hands or eyes for sinful purposes, please cut them off now. Matthew told you to! It's much better than going to hell.


[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus was giving strong warnings about sin and temptation. It is better to avoid what causes you to stumble than be cast into hell.