25/50 Deep Stack Tricky Hand

[Yeti]

Diablo, what do you do here, CR allin?

Or bet the turn and fold to a raise?

[turnipmonster]

out of your range of reraising hands, what hands can you have that call the turn? I think you make it too easy for him here if you fold your big pairs like this every single time. in a less aggressive game I think the fold is standard.

--turnipmonster

[Greeksquared]

Min bet the turn. Call his raise. Push the River. You might want to get drunk before pulling off this move. He will probably put you on a set of jacks if you do this, or maybe the nut flush.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to get drunk before pulling off this move.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - the best advice yet.

[VanVeen]

I was watching the table for several orbits before this hand occurred and based on the table dynamic I would have check-raised this dude all-in.

Here's what villain knows:
1. You've been open raising often and conceding small pots w/some frequency.
2. You've been reraising his opens more often than you're being dealt big pairs - your reraising range preflop has probably widened vs. him.
3. You just typed in the chat to 'hulk17' that you thought he was bluffing in a sizeable pot but "didn't have the heart to call down".

I mention 3 only to convey that you seemed very 'weak' at the time. You were doing a lot of hemming and hawing before folding, and it seemed like you were doing it every 3 hands. Anyway, villain's calling range both preflop and on the flop has probably widened significantly (and they were wide to begin with) in response, as has the range of hands he'll pot the turn with (especially given the turn card). You almost certainly have the best hand w/redraws vs. that % of your opponent's range you're behind. This is *exactly* what you're looking for when you reraise preflop: your loose/aggressive opponent will create a very big pot vs. you with a wide range of hands and give you an opportunity to exploit it when you're holding a strong hand. So, to echo diablo's sentiment, reraising preflop is less than awesome if you're going to fold when the conditions are just right to win a $8k pot. I think they were.

I def. do not lead this turn. Very easy check-and-raise vs. deerchaser, imo. You make lots of monies by allowing him to more cheaply bluff (instead of having to shove).

[fsuplayer]

bruiser-

if vanveen's recollection is accurate about the 20mins before this hand, you should CR all in.

i do this sort of thing occasionally, by underrepresenting my hand on the turn, then chickening out and talking myself into a fold.

it really looks like you have 88-1010 or AK/AQ here, and he'll bet his draws, bluffs, and weaker made hands almost everytime given his description.

you got the big pot you wanted by reraising pf, now double up.

smooth calling pf is an option and keeps you from these tough decisions, but you choose the other route.

stick the rest in there.

[Stormwolf]

I agree with you, it seemed that there were 2-3 guys who took a shot at bruiser in some hands, and bruiser I think when you took a long time on those decisions(before you checked) it may encourage them to pot it with a weak hand because they think you will fold, if you see the other players they tend to call and check more quickly when they are weak and it may freeze the bluffer into firing one more, even tough he 'knows' your calling fast because your weak again it may freeze him into firing $4K with pocket eights or something, or you could use as reverse tell in case you plan in paying off

[neon]

CR all-in on the flop, or the turn, fsu?

I think I like a CR push on the turn. Lets villain put more money in the pot if he's on air than does a CR on the flop, and sets things up to play a big pot. I mean, we're 5-handed, and Bruiser has an overpair w/ a strong flush draw; it's a monster hand at a table playing this short, especially against a LAG who probably has an emormous hand range w/ which he could be making this bet in position on the turn.

If VanVeen's comments about your table image at the time were accurate, Bruiser, I think a lead flop, CR turn line would have significant metagame benefits as well. Once he sees you take this line w/ a huge hand, Villain will likely be a lot less likely to steal small and medium sized pots from you in the future. That is, if he's been calling a lot of your continuation bets w/ position to take the pot away if you show weakness on later streets (which it sounds like he definitely was doing), then this line may discourage him from trying to run you over in future hands.

Which judging by nothing more than what I've seen of your playing style from your posts might be of some real benefit.

[fsuplayer]

neon-

the turn.

-fsu

[theBruiser500]

"
Bruiser, you are obviously very successful with your style; we play very differently, but I'm interested in your thought process. Please explain to me how you can lay this down. Why is he betting 4400 if he has a flush? Don't you think he's trying to protect top pair or bluffing you at least twice as often as he is betting a small flush or trips here (in which case you have 7 outs)? I'm assuming a boat is out of the question. What else beats you? "

Why is a boat out of the quesiotn here? He could have a boat or a flush, or other hands. My style btw doesn't work well against deerchaser or similar players but I can tell you what was running through my head when I folded. Mainly I was upset with myself on how I played this hand cause I reraised preflop and as Diablo and others say I can't reraise it preflop and then play it post flop this way (i agree, how would you play it though diablo?)... I should have just claled preflop because frankly, i folded to reduce variance and because of bankroll considerations.

also it's not just beating him 1 out of 3 times because pot is 8k but after i call i'll have another 8k left or whatever, something like that so if i go all in i'll have to put in 12k or someting to win that 8k pot, whatever, the stack sizes were weird and i had no courage.