Schoonmaker "Don't Quit Your Day Job" (yeah, it's long)

[John Feeney]

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People like Feeney, Miller and others say "I'm no longer playing the game". This has always had me curious. I meant to ask Feeney the other day about this, but I forgot as another topic was being discussed. What was it that made them quit if they were being successful? Why do you want to find another job?

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I'm happy to answer that here, Q. I didn't get any other job. I just don't need the money from poker the way I used to. Investment income is greater now. The circumstances are private, but I saw that I had the financial opportunity to move on to other interests, which I wanted to pursue during this short lifetime, and did. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] That said, I loved poker while I was involved in it. There was a freedom you don't get in many other occupations. And it was fun making good money in a field on the margins of mainstream society. (Well, in the '90s it was. Now, with the TV poker boom, it's almost mainstream! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img])

[mookie10]

Q,
I've taken the plunge after you called me a " Lurp for lurking ". I'm the guy who gave you the compliment on the monopoly post the other night at the tables.You may not remember because I think you might have been drinking. lol. With that said, here's my 2 cents.

DON'T DO IT.

There are too many variables that no amount of spreadsheets can account for. It seems that you recognize these variables but don't want to see them. You have too many responsibilities in your life to take a gamble ( pun intended ) on online poker. If I had two kids and a pregnant wife the last thing on my mind would be giving up a stable income and INSURANCE right now. Why not just continue to pay the bills with your poker income and sleep well at night knowing you have another check coming at the end of the month. I think you're just asking for a Prozac prescription in a couple of months.

IMO, the real issue isn't whether or not you can handle multi-tabling 8-12 for 40hrs/week ( props to you guys who can do this, I always end up feeling like Lucy at the chocolate factory ) but rather you're lack of interest in your current job. I get the feeling you are bored silly with your current situation and poker seems like a viable option to get you out of " cubicle hell ". I would focus my energies on looking/finding a more enjoyable job ( not poker ) and continuing poker as a good part time income.

You've obviously thought this out and I wish you the best of luck in whatever route you take ( you seem like one of the good guys ).

First post. Feel free to flame. Oh yeah, what's rakeback and is there a difference between 3/6 and 5/10 6max.

[RacersEdge]

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I'm new to internet poker and this site as well. I read about this site in both Phil Gordon's book and the Sports Illustrated article. So, I dont know if this is the right forum for this post but its my best guess.


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Here's another consideration..the party is over! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[QTip]

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People like Feeney, Miller and others say "I'm no longer playing the game". This has always had me curious. I meant to ask Feeney the other day about this, but I forgot as another topic was being discussed. What was it that made them quit if they were being successful? Why do you want to find another job?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm happy to answer that here, Q. I didn't get any other job. I just don't need the money from poker the way I used to. Investment income is greater now. The circumstances are private, but I saw that I had the financial opportunity to move on to other interests, which I wanted to pursue during this short lifetime, and did. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] That said, I loved poker while I was involved in it. There was a freedom you don't get in many other occupations. And it was fun making good money in a field on the margins of mainstream society. (Well, in the '90s it was. Now, with the TV poker boom, it's almost mainstream! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img])

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Thanks for the response John. I meant to ask you that in the thread where we talked about variance in short-handed games, but forgot.

[QTip]

Mookie:

Thanks for replying dude. No, I wasn't drinking (I don't drink), and I remember it well. I'm just a bit crazy when I play and chat! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I'm glad you started posting.

When you say "I took the plunge", do you mean you went pro or that you are posting now? I couldn't tell from your post.

Thanks for the comments, I'm trying to consider all these things.

Take care, and I hope to see you more in the forum.

Owen

[QTip]

Crunchy:

Again, a great response. Let me give my thoughts to some of them.

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I'm a programmer myself and I can say that after a couple 4 hour sessions in a day I sure the hell wouldn't want to sit and debug code for another 2-4 hours afterwards.


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I'm thinking mostly of software training, and helping other people use software to create business solutions. Although, there probably would be some application design projects now and then.

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You're going to have to do some real, substantial work to use this as something to fill a gap in your resume.

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I agree. I do already have 3 companies I've done some work for, so, it's a start. However, I do plan on getting some work for this purpose.

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Aren't you planning on going pro because it's going to make you soo much more money? And you're still talking about getting some extra income? I'm confused!?!

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I was thinking about the times when I'm not doing well.

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Quote:
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4. Something that people consider legit.


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I think that if this is a reason then you need to reconsider. You seem to be wavering on your view on this from the beginning of the thread. If this is really a concern for you then maybe you should just keep it a hobby.

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I don't think I've wavered here. The less slack, the better. However, I'm not afraid of catching slack or having others disapprove of anything I do.

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I can accept as much work as I want (if any comes in). I want to try being on my own for at least once in my life. I've been suckin the corporate breast for too long.


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This work is not going to find you. Starting as a consultant - unless you have A LOT of good contacts - you're going to have to get out and market your business - it's not just going to happen by itself. Again - this will take time away from poker.

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Agreed. I'm not looking to start a large, successful business. The purpose in it was to create something legitimate that would allow me to fill the other reasons listed. The amount of time and energy spent in this venture would be worth it for those reasons.

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why can't you dog it for a weeek or two

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It's been 3 weeks [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I've been doing the work I used to do in the int'l dept, though, so I've had a bit of an excuse. They're hiring someone this week, so the excuses are over.

The rest of your responses are all right on. I'm more like $4,000, and I'm working on an entire layout right now.

And FYI, the family insurance is $900/month. Raped!

[mookie10]

QTip,

I was talking about the " plunge " into this cesspool of degenerate gamblers and posters ( [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img], this forum has helped me immensely ). And for the drinking part, that's funny, because when I wrote it I had this feeling that you probably didn't even drink.

As for the Pro part, I wouldn't be able to handle it and fear my game right now couldn't either. Even though my last two months of poker play have been more profitable than my paychecks, I love my job. I'm a teacher/coach and in a sense I get to be a Pro during the summer ( with the nice little safety net of my regular check every month ).

After reading my post to you ( I was drinking ) I think I see my ugly tight-passive leak rearing its head. I just see too many negatives : 1. future of the games 2. rakeback 3. burnout 4. stress from only source of income 5. no benefits 6. spousal relations 7. resume holes , etc, etc. and feel the negatives outweigh the positives.

Of course, Bill Gates was told he was an idiot for taking a chance, Mark Cuban was sleeping on a friends couch when he took his chance, and I'm sure Henry Ford heard, " you're crazy if you think you can make cars that way."

I've just been broke before and looking for a job and I remember the stress well, fortunately, I was single and in my early twenties. You have responsibilities, huge ones, and that's what concerns me about your decision.

Just go win a WSOP satellite, win the bracelet, be cooler than Raymer and Moneymaker combined, and then you'll have no worries. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[crunchy1]

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I don't think I've wavered here. The less slack, the better. However, I'm not afraid of catching slack or having others disapprove of anything I do.

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Ahh... Understood - and I agree.

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This work is not going to find you. Starting as a consultant - unless you have A LOT of good contacts - you're going to have to get out and market your business - it's not just going to happen by itself. Again - this will take time away from poker.

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Agreed. I'm not looking to start a large, successful business. The purpose in it was to create something legitimate that would allow me to fill the other reasons listed. The amount of time and energy spent in this venture would be worth it for those reasons.

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I guess I don't question the worth as much as I question:
<ul type="square">[*]the amount of time and energy it's going to take [*]how it's going to affect your energy/focus when it comes time to play your poker session(s)[*]the significant amount of time that starting a small business like this is probably going to take to get off the ground. [*]the reliance on resources (time and money) from poker to help get this thing going.[/list]I just think there's a lot to consider before it's deemed a good and/or viable idea.


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It's been 3 weeks [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I've been doing the work I used to do in the int'l dept, though, so I've had a bit of an excuse. They're hiring someone this week, so the excuses are over.

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I see... Have you considered or looked into finding another position with a different company? What about working for a consulting firm that will do most of the "farming-out" for you? Many jobs like this will give you the freedom you desire with the security of some benefits and a steady paycheck.

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The rest of your responses are all right on. I'm more like $4,000, and I'm working on an entire layout right now.

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I'll say it again (and I know the numbers you're looking at from your spreadsheet) but, DAMN, $4000/month is a fricking big nut to be relying on from 2/4 and 3/6 games.

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And FYI, the family insurance is $900/month. Raped!

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YOWZA!! I knew it was gonna be up there. Are you certain that you will be able to obtain this coverage? Have you had any resistance/cost inflation due to the preganacy situation?

[QTip]

All good thoughts Mookie, thanks.

[QTip]

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I guess I don't question the worth as much as I question:

the amount of time and energy it's going to take

how it's going to affect your energy/focus when it comes time to play your poker session(s)

the significant amount of time that starting a small business like this is probably going to take to get off the ground.

the reliance on resources (time and money) from poker to help get this thing going.


I just think there's a lot to consider before it's deemed a good and/or viable idea.

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I've almost started a business twice in my life, so I do have a bit of a knowledge on how to go about it and what it takes. Again, I would be looking at it as more of a filler than anything else.

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Have you considered or looked into finding another position with a different company? What about working for a consulting firm that will do most of the "farming-out" for you? Many jobs like this will give you the freedom you desire with the security of some benefits and a steady paycheck.

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I just had that thought this morning. There's a software training company that I've gone to before and even contacted about a part-time job before I started playing poker. I'll probably look into that anyway. It's an idea that needs to be considered.

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YOWZA!! I knew it was gonna be up there. Are you certain that you will be able to obtain this coverage? Have you had any resistance/cost inflation due to the preganacy situation?

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For everyone to know. You can't get a new policy when your spouse is pregnant. They won't cover you or your spouse. However, they will cover your children. My option at this point with insurance is to take the COBRA plan from my work (it's the same cost). You can have COBRA coverage for up to 18 months. So, if this all goes down, I'll have COBRA until we have the baby, and then I'll get a different plan.

Also, family insurance w/o maternity coverage is more like $500/month.